Finding Silk Nets

November 30, 2004

I'm sorry to bring this topic up again--I know there's plenty of discussion on nets in the archives, but I'm still having a hard time locating Christian Dior or Fogal silk stockings (9 or 10 black silk thread). I've tried department stores and googled like hell, but no luck. Someone mentioned this website: http://www.stockingshowcase.com but those Christian Diors are nylons, not silks. Fogal in NY has them, but I'm not sure if they'll be able to get here in time for my shoot this weekend (at PSU). Are there other, cheaper, more accessible alternatives to these brands? Or should I just settle for a pro-mist filter to get some halation in my highlights? I've been warned to stay away from glass diffusion on 16mm because it will soften the already soft, small image.

Thanks.

David Mullen ASC · November 30, 2004

Net diffusion also softens the image just like glass diffusion, so I'm not sure why net diffusion is supposed to be better than glass diffusion for 16mm. Besides, you can get lighter grades of diffusion with the glass filters if you want, although you won't get as much halation. The closest things to the "smeary" halation of a net diffusion, to me, are Soft-FX and Classic Softs. ProMists halate even more, but more like a Fog Filter does, as a hazy even glow.

November 30, 2004

I don't understand why the big expensive names such as Dior and Fogel are the choice of net for most DPs- I picked some really good stockings from Canada for $8 that totally outdo anything else I've seen as far as nets go. They are AU NATUREL made by SECRET. They look great on both DVCAM and 35mm stills.

Adam Frisch FSF · November 30, 2004

Don't think Dior does the lightest version still. Fogal do - can't remember what they're called - but it's the thinnest one they've got. But theoretically, you could use any brand. Problem is, I've not found anyone that makes them as thin and light as Fogal - all the others were way to heavy.

Kevin Zanit · December 1, 2004

I use Fogal Noblesse# 11 black. Very fine and fragile. Look great.

Kevin Zanit

Tony Brown · December 2, 2004

The best Dior was 7 denier Superfine, it was slightly matte as opposed to the silky sheen you get on Fogal. The '7' was hard to find so most people used 10 denier, still much finer than most other brands 10 Denier.

To my knowledge neither have been made for several years.

The current Dior is best kept for cosy nights in..... not alone obviously :D

December 2, 2004

8 Denier is still pretty amazing nonetheless- I am suprised at how many DPs still go with a 10 Dior/Fogel when alot of others at 8 are superior (IMO). Certainly alot of "trade secret" believing sheep out there- bah, they probably get their wives/girlfriends/mothers and sisters to pick 'em up for them to avoid the dirty work! :P

Tony, what about those meshy old WW2 stockings the likes of Unsworth were using (I'm talking about the sun/planet halation on 2001)- they can't have been that thin and elasticated! They do go chain fence even at f5.6, but stopped right down or so they make the technique glow (no pun intended) unlike any stockings seen before! Look at some of the modern films shot by the likes of Robin Vidgeon and Mike Benson to confirm this- I dare say Thomas Del Ruth uses similar stockings.

Ebay, people!

December 3, 2004

What exactly IS halate?

December 3, 2004

Actually it is halation. Halation is the spreading of light in an emulsion due to light waves coming thru the emulsion bouncing off the pressure plate and back into the film. It was the reason rem-jet coating was developed. Most commonly observed as a "halo" around a bright light source or around a silohuette. There are a number of tiffen filters that mimic this "effect" or more correctly "defect".

Stockings have been used for years to also mimic this effect in a signature sort of way. With different DP's having there own look closely guarded.

Once again something you can dial in today using digital effects.

Edited December 3, 2004 by Andy Sparaco

December 3, 2004

Ok, I see, tnx. Pressure plate being the cellophane film?

David Mullen ASC · December 3, 2004

Halation (verb: to halate) also just means any glow created around a light source in the frame, like from diffusion filters.

December 5, 2004

Thanks for the advice about the diffusion. I got my hands on some nice silk stockings, but in the end I decided not to use any diffusion. I was really set on using them or a filter (all we had was the 1/4 white pro-mist), but when I got there, it just didn't feel right. I couldn't really get the highlights as bright as I wanted and I was worried that I would soften the image too much or underexpose, but I'm sure it will be fine. I was shooting on 7218, which I read is good for digital post. What methods of diffusion, or bringing out highlights are good on After Effects; I don't know of any filters that work too well on Final Cut Pro. (I've heard of people layering the video on FCP over itself at different opacities with different filters to keep some detail.) We're getting our film processed at DuArt at a student rate, and they pay close attention to the transfer to DV--is there anything they can add (for diffusion or to bring out the highlights) without charging more?

Thanks

David Mullen ASC · December 5, 2004

No, at this point, your option is a digital filter effect, like a Gaussian Blur overlay. While it is possible to add diffusion in some types of telecines between the film and the pick-up device, if you are transferring negative, you get halated shadows, not highlights.