Aaton LTR & Prime lenses for super16

January 9, 2005

Hello

I have been offered on an Aaton LTR camera in super16 with a few prime lenses. My 1st question is on the CP ultra Primes. The seller has the 9mm, 12.5mm, 16mm and the 25mm primes, now do the 9mm and the 12.5mm cover the super16 frame or not, I am assuming the 16 and the 25 do.

Also, the camera is an Aaton with the serial number in the low C600s, mags in C1600s would this pose a problem if upgrading to video assist and replacing the motor for a max 54fps range, and how much would that cost (an estimate). Based on the serial numbers what date was the camera and its mags manufactured? I know some older Aaton mags have problems with the super16 area and noise since they were not intended for an upgrade, would I have that problem with these magezines.

After much thought and advice (a post here about a month ago) I have decided to make a purchase, if I do come across a decent shape S16 pkg in my budget range. I haven't seen this camera in person yet, what are the questions I should ask the owner besides the obvious overall condition. Should I worry about GG markings.

I'd appreciate any technical input in advance.

Y.M.Poursohi

Randy Havens · January 9, 2005

The LTR is great camera!

I bought one 2 years ago and it is extremely quiet.

I wanted to upgrade my motor to do slowmotion, but

the camera house told me it was impossible since

the pull down claw was steel or something, so I dont think

you could do that.

I guess if its the LTR54 you would have no problem, but not the 7.

Looking at the serial no. I would think it would be a LTR7.

You could buy a K-3, convert to super 16 and make it a PL mount

I think its relatively cheap

I think the LTR is a great choice, good luck

Nathan Milford · January 9, 2005

Howdy,

The problem with purchasing an Aaton with such a low serial number (body and for mags) is that there may not be spare parts avaliable so if some of those odd kibbles and bits inside the camera fails it may be a hugely expensive enterprise upgrading a whole camera subsystem. Aaton does not make new parts, nor do they support older cameras so if it requires some serious work we cannot send it into the factory. For example some older mags have a drive belt and sprockets with large knobby teeth. If that belt snaps (c'mon the cameras is like 30 years old) we need to replace the sprockets and the gear under the spindle to fit a new style drive belt with smaller teeth.

You really wouldn't be able to upgrade your motor, even if there was a spare avaliable. The reasons early Aatons could only reach 32fps was not due to the motor. Current draw would rise because of small design issues in the kibbles and bits inside of the camera. 7LTRs (properly serviced) sometimes can pull over an amp at 12v (with no mag or film) where a 54LTR (again properly serviced) will draw as low as half an amp and even the most neglected of XTRprods will draw 400 milliamps or less. This is all due to efficiency of design and also manufacutring tolerances have gotten more fine over the last thirty years.

Your camera probably comes with CM style magazines. If you have a choice avoid the (very early) style of magazine where the take-up doors come off (these are also the type with the knobby drive belt, which is sometimes hidden under a panel unlike modern mags). The mags are hard to prevent light leaks on as they usually don't have rubber step gaskets on the seams nor do they have light baffles up by the sprockets on the takeups side. The CM styles (in Aaton parlance C = Regular 16 and M = mechanical drive, as opposed to DX where D = Super 16 and X = Magnetically driven) of mags can be upgraded top DM mags for about $1500 a mag which includes replacing the co-axial roller which transports the film betweem chambers. This upgrade make the film transverse the co-axial emulsion up. Around mag #2500 (not sure exactly) Aaton found out that the new T-Grain emulsions bruised much easier than older emulsions so they flipped the co-axial. This originally wasn't mean't as a Super 16 upgrade, but it sure made a difference.

As for fiber screen markings there is only one screen for the LTR if it wasn't meant to be S16 switchable. If thats the case you'll need a late LTR54 sliding fiber screen. I'm not clear what that costs (maybe $500 or more?) nor am I clear what it might cost to upgrade an older LTR to S16, if we even offer that service anymore (new gate? new mount holes?, maybe just replace the lens mount spider?). Also note that that your camera will have a three flange Aaton mount (looks similar to a B4 mount, strangly) so if your lenses are not in Aaton mount will need a $300-400 bayonet-aaton adaptor or you could go one step better and get a PL mount wich might cost $1600-1800.

As for adding a video tap you could only use a Top Handle Tap. The top handle and view finder would need to be heavily modified or machined to accomidate this. We know a guy who does this service beautifully and could send it out for such an upgrade if you chose to send the camera in.

VERY IMPORTANT: If the seller cannot provide you with a solid service history of the camera you must assume it needs an overhaul. On an older LTR overhauls cost a bit more than for a new XTR prod. It may be between 12-16 hours of labor at $120/hr exluding parts. The older cameras are not as easy to overhaul (just overhauling the motor requires desoldering a few circuit board interconnects!, the prods are much easier). This could be between $1500 and $3000 (depending on parts) and YOU SHOULD NEGOTIATE THE PAYMENT OR DISTRIBUTION OF THE PAYMENT OF THIS COST WITH THE SELLER BEFORE CONFIRMING PURCHASE!

A lot of other shops (other than Abel) provide these services, and sometimes at a better price, but many of them do not do a proper complete overhaul in the factory style. Les Bosher in the UK still will do all of the S16 upgrade as might others, but I would suggest (and not because I am an employee, well maybe a little) you get the Overhaul and regular maintenance done at Abel. You should sne dthe camera in every 4 years for an overhaul and every year for a blessing (one or two hours of service) or a light internal cleaning.

Please feel free to ask any questions you can also call up Kathy, our service admin, for a service quote.

Good luck, the old LTRs are great little cameras if you take care of them.

nathan

Nathan Milford · January 9, 2005

I guess if its the LTR54 you would have no problem, but not the 7.
Looking at the serial no. I would think it would be a LTR7.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Starting with an 54LTR is a much better place than the 7LTR like the original poster is looking into. It's a very different world and it's where Aaton seriously starts competing with the early SR1.

ARRI had been making cameras for darn near half a century when Aaton and Jean-Pierre started making 7LTRs. It is my guess that JP was more interested in making a camera for revolutionary film making than standardizing manufacuting. The SR came out and ARRI already know how to pound out a camera thus why the SRs are fairly regular. At this point in history Aatons had many subtle and a few not so subtle design changes imposed on them every few cameras before they hit the 54LTR and things began settling down.

The 54LTRs saw a more stable design and manufacutring process so that the majority of the 54LTR serial number range has a pretty standard set of parts.

By the time you get to the XTRs and the prods the differences are only a teflon washer here or there (ignoring generalation differences like Aatonite and removable fibre screens).

The 54LTR is where to start when looking for an Aaton, otherwise get an old SR.

A school chum of mine (I should finish that darn degree shoudn't I) got something in the 600 (7LTR) range. Beautiful camera, but it needs an overhaul BADLY and is in danger of seizing up. His options are also limited as far as non-wildly-custom upgrades.

- nathan