Panavision going down for the third time?

[Brad Webb]

They don't like selling 16mm, frankly, but they sell lots of it to NFL films, students, and commercials every year.

 

There are still many many spots shot on 16mm, and television shows. A lot of stuff over in Europe still opts for S16 over HD. It may be grainier, but it has awesome colors and dynamic range.

 

Yes, as of right now, many TV shows and commercials are shot on 16. However, less and less will be in the future, until none are. TV shows and commercials will either be shot on 35, or digital. This is when Kodak will stop making 16mm film, because no one will be buying it. Film schools are buying digital cameras, and film students are going to shoot digitally. It's just so much cheaper.

 

I love shooting 16mm, I think it's beautiful and I just love the grain in it. In fact, I just convinced the director and producer of the feature I'm about to shoot to NOT shoot on Red or the Arri D-21 and shoot S16 instead. 16mm is alive, but on the way out.

[Brad Webb]

The vast majority of prime time TV is shot digitally. The almost-happened SAG strike flipped the new shows that way, only a few older episodics stayed on film for a consistent look with their previous seasons. Panavision has something like a hundred Genesis packages, mostly out on TV jobs. During the TV season, they're all out. We had to go F-35 at times, because we couldn't get a pair of Genesis bodies. As the film/digital market shares shift, Panavision will shift in sync with them.

 

 

 

 

 

-- J.S.

 

That is exactly why they are in trouble. I doubt Panavision ever ran out of film cameras to rent out. That is a huge loss of revenue, revenue that Panavision needs. However, I do totally agree that Panavision will pull through.

[John Sprung]

I doubt Panavision ever ran out of film cameras to rent out.

 

Actually they did, back when the very first Panaflexes were new.

 

 

 

 

-- J.S.

[David Mullen ASC]

That is exactly why they are in trouble. I doubt Panavision ever ran out of film cameras to rent out. That is a huge loss of revenue, revenue that Panavision needs. However, I do totally agree that Panavision will pull through.

 

When Panavision runs out of Genesis cameras and you have to rent F35's that doesn't mean you aren't renting from Panavision anymore -- they own Plus 8 Video and have F35's to rent.

[Hal Smith]

Was thinking of buying a 4K car !!! :rolleyes:

 

I've always thought of Corvettes as the Super Panavision of cars...can you scan them to 6k?

[George Ebersole]

Yes, as of right now, many TV shows and commercials are shot on 16. However, less and less will be in the future, until none are. TV shows and commercials will either be shot on 35, or digital. This is when Kodak will stop making 16mm film, because no one will be buying it. Film schools are buying digital cameras, and film students are going to shoot digitally. It's just so much cheaper.

 

I love shooting 16mm, I think it's beautiful and I just love the grain in it. In fact, I just convinced the director and producer of the feature I'm about to shoot to NOT shoot on Red or the Arri D-21 and shoot S16 instead. 16mm is alive, but on the way out.

I worked for an "art house" film director last year, and scoured the net for every film school and film festival of relevance so he could do a grand tour of them. During my research it seemed like every "film school" was using high end Canon or SONY prosumer video gear. I'm sure a few school have 16mm gear, but I wonder how much use it gets.

 

Other than USC or UCLA, what other schools have a Panavision Elaine? (since this is a Panavision thread)

[John Holland]

I've always thought of Corvettes as the Super Panavision of cars...can you scan them to 6k?

I would think of Super Panavision as at least i hope 10-12K

[Brad Webb]

When Panavision runs out of Genesis cameras and you have to rent F35's that doesn't mean you aren't renting from Panavision anymore -- they own Plus 8 Video and have F35's to rent.

 

 

True, but you no longer HAVE to rent from Panavision. You can rent F35's from a number of places, or you can work out a deal with Panavision to rent the F35 for less since they ran out of Genesis cameras. All of these are losses in revenue for Panavision. Then add on to that the number of productions that in the past would have rented film cameras from Panavision, that now don't even consider Panavision. That's a lot revenue streams that have dried up in the last couple of years.

[Josh Hill]

It seems to me that a lot of people are assuming Panavision doesn't have a price scale that is infinitely negotiable, and that any negotiation under the suggested rental price would be a loss. In my LIMITED (mind you) experience with Panavision Dallas, they are great about making deals for filmmakers who are working outside of the big budget system.

 

As someone has mentioned, many times before, the cameras that Panavision owns are PAID FOR; their rental cost is never a loss, no matter if they give it to you at 100% of the price nor 50% of the price. Every rental company, large or small, runs on the principle that the cameras pay for themselves quickly and everything else is, basically, profit.

 

The acolytes of digital continually scream about how it is going to kill film, and have since I've been on the board and before. But how do they explain the fact that Panavision rents digital cameras -- a lot of them? (I believe that Panavision Dallas even rents out RED cameras, too). Panavision, if they wanted, could go out and buy the entire stock of new RED cameras, distribute them, and rent them.

 

When we're talking about a 60 year old company, who has undergone multiple owners, we're talking about a company with 60 years worth of debt, worth of mistakes. When we say that digital is going to kill film, it's because Digital is new -- they haven't accrued their debt or anything else, but they will. It reminds me of American Gods (since I just finished reading the book); the old versus the new -- everyone wants to come out on top, but no one wants to believe that there can be no winners, that everyone can survive for a good long time.

 

Digital will change, but film is still in the game because, like computer processors and everything else, digital has physical walls that they will eventually hit. The question is whether or not they will hit them before or after film is rendered a second tier format. Anywhere in the digital loop -- from cameras to RAM -- we could hit a physical wall that might prevent the giant leaps and bounds we are seeing now. Look at processors now, for instance: a focus on multithreading rather than single core speed. We're at a 3ghz wall right now, and while we might get past that in six months or a year, it may not be practical nor a huge jump.

 

What should be said about Panavision is that is is another one of those fine American companies that have been mismanaged somewhere along the way, that has bloated itself to support itself and now it finds out it was swallowing cement and not helium all those years. RED works because it is a billionaire's hobby; being the CEO of a company as your job is something very different -- you want to hold on to that job and that lifestyle at all costs.

[John Sprung]

You can rent F35's from a number of places, or you can work out a deal with Panavision to rent the F35 for less since they ran out of Genesis cameras.

 

You can't blame Panavision specifically for not accurately predicting the big flip from film to digital caused by the almost-strike. Absolutely nobody in the entire business saw that one coming -- at least not soon enough to do anything about it.

 

 

 

 

-- J.S.

[giap vu]

I worked for an "art house" film director last year, and scoured the net for every film school and film festival of relevance so he could do a grand tour of them. During my research it seemed like every "film school" was using high end Canon or SONY prosumer video gear. I'm sure a few school have 16mm gear, but I wonder how much use it gets.

 

Other than USC or UCLA, what other schools have a Panavision Elaine? (since this is a Panavision thread)

 

UNLV: elaine and g2

[Brad Webb]

You can't blame Panavision specifically for not accurately predicting the big flip from film to digital caused by the almost-strike. Absolutely nobody in the entire business saw that one coming -- at least not soon enough to do anything about it.

 

 

 

 

-- J.S.

 

Obviously nobody could predict that.

 

My original intention was to reply to this:

 

With respect Tom, I don't see how digital has any thing to do with the issues at Panavision?

 

I just wanted to point how digital has a lot to do with the issues at Panavision. It's not the only factor, but it is one the big ones.