Steadicam Needed

[Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith]

The producer really wants a steadicam on the shoot, and we can't rent one at the moment. He was seeing if I could get hold of one, and as I don't know anyone that has one, I'm thinking I might aswell buy my own.

 

I was considering the DV Rig Pro, mainly for the price. (I can barely afford that)

 

Do you guys know of any cheaper rigs? My budget for this is 450, and no more. Even thats pushing it, I'm going to have to save for that.

 

Unless one of you guys (from UK) are selling, I'd be interested.

 

Tnx for any help.

Dan.

[Rich Steel]

If your budget is £450 (GBP) then you can afford to rent a rig from Optex. They have everything from the steadicam Junior (£35 pd) steadicam mini (£65 pd) all the way up to the top of the range Ultra Film (£395 pd).

 

Alternatively, use your £450 and invest in a steadicam workshop at Optex. That way you can hire any body mounted rig from them if and when required.

 

Just my tupence worth!

 

Whatever you do make sure your safety comes first and not the shot.

[Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith]

If your budget is £450 (GBP) then you can afford to rent a rig from Optex.  They have everything from the steadicam Junior (£35 pd) steadicam mini (£65 pd) all the way up to the top of the range Ultra Film (£395 pd).

 

Alternatively, use your £450 and invest in a steadicam workshop at Optex. That way you can hire any body mounted rig from them if and when required.

 

Just my tupence worth!

 

Whatever you do make sure your safety comes first and not the shot.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks I'll take a look at what options Optex can provide. Thing is, yeh I could rent one for that money, but, it's my money. I won't have anything to show for it, and it will only benefit the production and not me. And the production can't hire anything out until we get the first episode shot and sent of to the TV company in America and Israel.

 

Were not shooting the first episode until sometime in February, so I have a bit of time to save up. Although next week were doing the intro which will be used for all the episodes, and I think were going to be limited to a tripod and my own "steady" hands.

 

You mention safety, something about steadicams that is a bit dangerous?

 

Anyway, thanks for your help.

[Rich Steel]

When your walking backwards with a 35lb camera attached to you then YES safety is a huge issue. It's amazing how quickly you accelarate towards the ground when things go wrong and things do go wrong from time to time. If you operate a body mounted rig with no experience you become a liability to yourself and others. That's why I recommend a training course.

 

Your right, it's your money but I diagree with your statement of not having anything to show for it.

 

(A) You can do the training course. You've added a new skill to your arsenal.

(B) You'll have some pretty slick shots in the bag which you can use for your Demo Reel.

 

All the best

[Bill Powers]

Dan,

 

You will never regret spending the money on a workshop. You may, however, regret not taking a workshop. Steadicams can be very dangerous if not used properly. (I mean life, death and broken bones stuff.) Rich is 100% correct.

 

Bill

Steadicam Dealer

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

Or, you could hire me to do it!

 

Phil

[Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith]

Alternatively, use your £450 and invest in a steadicam workshop at Optex. That way you can hire any body mounted rig from them if and when required.

You mean take the course and then I can use their equipment any time I want?

 

I know this sounds a bit crazy (and it probably is), but I'm just thinking of renting one out, being damn some careful, and just moving step by step as to how I will take the shot. I mean, I'm aware of a potential risk, so I will take absolute care in making sure there?s no cables behind me or anything. (Atleast I will lower the risk)

 

It's just that taking a course on steadicam, although probably being a very smart and sensible move, it will cost me more money and with shooting taking place very soon I don't really have a choice. And also the fact that I'm extremely busy right now. (Taking on full time education, part time job, the odd shoot here and there, and now a full blown bloody episode a week joby, and there?s a load more crap but I'm not going to bore you with all that)

 

The camera were starting off with isn't that big anyway (I'm talking only slightly larger than consumer DV), it's just when we start shooting the paid episodes that we?ll start to use bigger equipment. So I guess I have a bit of time.

 

I don't know what you guys think of this, but I was considering it:

Link

 

I mean, it's a start! (Hey stop laughing :angry: )

 

It's about the only second hand and cheap thing I can find.

 

Thing is I really am in over my head here in this project. The company has hired pro DP's before and a lot of them have had their own equipment. Hell they even had reels! And I'm really starting to look bad, so that?s why I really going for this steadicam thing. Should have seen the producers face when he found out that I didn't even have a reel with me.. christ was that one tense moment..

 

I mean I have got the job, but if I can't get hold of a steadicam I can see myself getting a bit tedious over time.

 

Thing is I will get paid for doing the first episode, but that?s only when it gets shown on TV. I'm not sure if they would pay me back for any equipment rental, but I'm guessing I will have to give a bit on this shoot, trouble is I don't have a huge amount to give right now. (Depending on when Chas Norman Cameras decides to actually pay me, but it should be quite a bit with Christmas bonuses e.t.c.)

 

Or, you could hire me to do it!

Not being funny or anything, but do you have your own rig? If so how much would you take on a day for?

Just in emergency really, incase they need a steadicam and I can't get hold of one. (Although I really can't promise anything, it's really up to the producer)

[Josh Bass]

Hi,

 

May I step in for a moment? Many things about this really bother me. I'm REALLY not trying to be an a**ho** here, so if you're offended I apologize.

 

You're 16, yes? Who is hiring you to DP a broadcast program? This seems highly weird; perhaps the UK is different than the US?

 

Also, what is this about not getting paid 'til something airs? Seems highly suspect, as well. I believe a person should be paid after the shoot, regardless of what happens with the material. Sometimes it's about a month after the day of the shoot, sometimes people are really quick and pay you next week, or God forbid, same day.

 

Also, this business about spending your own money on a steadicam/workshops seems like pure bullshit to me. I would most definitely not take a gig where someone would only hire me contigent upon the fact that I paid, out of pocket, for some expensive piece of gear. You either already own it, or they pay the rental costs.

 

Seriously, I'm really not trying to be an a**ho**, but this whole situation sounds like many of the crappy projects I've been involved with in the past, where many promises were made, and none kept. I feel like you may be being taken advantage of. Seriously. I've been there: "Oh yeah, Josh, we're gonna shoot this pilot, and we can't pay you for that, but then, when we sell the show in the summer, you'll be paid, and be part of the regular crew."

 

Please do not dismiss this advice.

[Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith]

You're 16, yes? Who is hiring you to DP a broadcast program? This seems highly weird; perhaps the UK is different than the US?

Well, between me and you, they don't know I'm 16.

 

Also, what is this about not getting paid 'til something airs? Seems highly suspect, as well. I believe a person should be paid after the shoot, regardless of what happens with the material. Sometimes it's about a month after the day of the shoot, sometimes people are really quick and pay you next week, or God forbid, same day.

I think it's purely because right now they don't have any money to pay out, we have to wait until the tv companies buy the episodes. (Although now you mention it, I will keep an eye on things)

 

Also, this business about spending your own money on a steadicam/workshops seems like pure bullshit to me. I would most definitely not take a gig where someone would only hire me contigent upon the fact that I paid, out of pocket, for some expensive piece of gear. You either already own it, or they pay the rental costs.

It really sucks.. But on the other hand I'm not dong this purely for the money, I'm doing it for the experience and showreel/CV.

 

 

Thanks for your info. I'll keep an eye out to see whats going on with pay. Maybe they will pay me later on for the rentals.

 

I guess what it will come down to is, how much we get from the TV company.

[Rich Steel]

The worst thing you can do Daniel is to just go ahead and rent one out. Firstly you won't have a basic understanding of the dynamics of how even the basic system balances. Secondly, if it's not properly balanced the rig won't operate right and you'll find trying to nail the shot a damn sight harder and thirdly I reiterate you can do some serious damage to yourself, others and the equipment.

 

I don't think Optex will rent out equipment unless they know you have a basic understanding of the equipment after all it's their investment and they want it returned as it was sent out.

 

Finally a word of caution. I've worked pilots before and have been paid a full days rate regardless if networks pick it up or not. There's no excuse for not getting payed for a project that may or may not ever see a broadcast. In my experience I've found the shows that I've worked on as a pilot has never I repeat NEVER guaranteed a position on the crew when it's been commisioned.

 

Just be careful and don't let some lame producer take you for a ride regardless of how tempting that carrot he's dangling in front of you.

[Rich Steel]

Forgot to say,

 

If you think your starting to look bad now, think what you'll like when you turn up with a system that you've bought off ebay for a fiver. Don't waste your money man. The £5 quid could go to renting the steadicam Mini.

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

Daniel, if you're serious about hiring a steadicam operator, get your production manager to contact me (phil_rhodes@rocketmail.com)

 

Phil

[Josh Bass]

I would save your money, as well. Get them to pay for it if they want it so bad. A lot of red flags here. At least you're listening though; that's good. It's appreciated.

[Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith]

Ok, cheers guys, it's appreciated. I have decided now not to rent one, but for now just to get someone else in to do the steadicam, namely Phil. (Phil I will pass the details onto the producer next week, cheers)

 

Until I actually take a course on it, I won't touch them, just seems too much of a risk right now. (Considering I've never even picked one up)

 

Finally a word of caution. I've worked pilots before and have been paid a full days rate regardless if networks pick it up or not. There's no excuse for not getting payed for a project that may or may not ever see a broadcast. In my experience I've found the shows that I've worked on as a pilot has never I repeat NEVER guaranteed a position on the crew when it's been commisioned.

Well, I suppose it should be paid, but then again it's a small time production. I mean I still do non-paid work every now and again, being paid for this is just going to be a bonus really. (Aslong as it covers travel expenses e.t.c. that's all I want, and possibly a bit more in compensation for slightly jeopardising many of the other things going on, i.e. college) This sounds crazy, but I think it's actually MORE important than education.

 

I will see what the pay is, if it's THAT good then I will have to put it before college. I mean, adult pay, experience, film credentials, nothing could be more important to someone who actually wants to work in the industry.

 

Anyway tnx again for your help guys, it's a bit of a bastard that I can't just go ahead and rent one out and do it myself, but hey such is life. (Especially when your 16)

Edited January 29, 2005 by Daniel J. Ashley-Smith

[Brad Grimmett]

If you've decided not to do the steadicam yourself and hire a professional operator then you're making the right decision. You could spend the money renting a rig and doing the shots yourself (and they probably won't be very good), or you could spend the same amount and hire a real op and get great shots that will improve the look of the show. It seems like a very easy decision to me.

[Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith]

If you've decided not to do the steadicam yourself and hire a professional operator then you're making the right decision.  You could spend the money renting a rig and doing the shots yourself (and they probably won't be very good), or you could spend the same amount and hire a real op and get great shots that will improve the look of the show.  It seems like a very easy decision to me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeh, well that?s the plan now anyway. Cheers.

 

Phil, I know you can do the job no problem and everything, but could I have a CV anyway just to give to the producer. I will have to break it to him that I can't do it myself but I know of someone that CAN do it. It would just help if I had something to show him on the spot.

 

One thing I am thinking of right now is how I'm going to tell him. Do most DP's know steadicam in the first place? If not that's a good thing so I can tell the producer that for shoots with steadicam they actually hire a steadicam op, it's never usually the DP that does it.

 

It's just that I don't want to come across as being inexperienced to him. (I mean I can do the job no prob, but just not the steadicam)

 

He might think that if I can't do steadicam, I'm inexperienced and not the one for the job.

 

I know this is kind of being ignorant to what all of you have said, but what if I was to hire one just for one day at home. I mean, I wouldn't actually be shooting with it, apart from using my consumer miniDV camcorder. Then I could get some practice in and teach myself, without actually putting anyone?s health in danger or jeopardising the film. I mean, it would just be a training session for myself, just without anyone telling me what to do. Plus it would only be a small miniDV camera, so it's not as though there?s a lot of weight involved. I don?t know, what do you guys think. Can?t be THAT dangerous, can it? Obviously I would take great care anyway. I?m really sorry I know this is in a way ignoring what all of you have said, but it can?t be too much of a risk with just a consumer MiniDV camera and me being extremely careful. And it would only the the JR lite or something.

Edited January 30, 2005 by Daniel J. Ashley-Smith

[Josh Bass]

From what I understand, steadicam operation is a pretty specialized field, not really a "pick it up and go" kinda thing. Takes assloads of training, practice and experience to be really good. I just PAd on a commercial with a separate DP and Steadicam operator, so there you go.

[Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith]

From what I understand, steadicam operation is a pretty specialized field, not really a "pick it up and go" kinda thing.  Takes assloads of training, practice and experience to be really good.  I just PAd on a commercial with a separate DP and Steadicam operator, so there you go.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh right, ok thanks, atleast now I know it's not always a usual thing for the DP to operate the steadicam, so I might be able to get out this whole fiasco with steadicam and the producer.

Edited January 30, 2005 by Daniel J. Ashley-Smith

[Brad Grimmett]

It would be pretty irregular for a DP to also do the steadicam on a project, at least on a decent size project. I've done steadicam on things I've been the DP on before, but that's only because I'm a steadicam operator first and was bumping up to DP, and they were very small projects.

As far as renting a rig and practicing at home....I'm not sure that it would help you that much without some instruction from an experienced operator. Also, you will most likely need to provide insurance to whoever you are renting from, and that will probably make it prohibitively expensive for you. Your money would really be better spent at a workshop.

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

I've tried to light and operate steadicam on a couple of occasions. No, no, bad, no, bad. Very bad. No.

 

Phil

[Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith]

Hi,

 

I've tried to light and operate steadicam on a couple of occasions. No, no, bad, no, bad. Very bad. No.

 

Phil

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Uhh, you mean bad for someone else? right?

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

I mean bad in that you have no time to do either properly. Never worth trying to do both at once.

 

Phil

[Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith]

It doesn't matter if you have or haven?t Phil, but have you got your own steadicam? If not it doesn't matter, it would just be a bonus if you did that?s all. (Less rental costs)

 

I don?t know what you guys think of this but I was thinking of keeping many of the scenes slightly handheld, like out of ?The Royle Family?. Only a slight handheld look, just to make it more interesting and possibly more realistic. I mean I have done it before and it seems to work, last year shooting "God Calling Rachel" the DP David Beaumont didn't use a tripod atall, mainly because nearly the whole film was set inside a phone booth, and it may have a looked a bit boring just sitting still.

Edited February 1, 2005 by Daniel J. Ashley-Smith

[Rik Andino]

Many of the shoots I've worked in the DP usually doesn't do steadicam work

Instead they pay sh*tloads of money to have someone else do it.

 

Sometime a Steadicam operator is hired to DP as well but this is rare

And the situaions are usually in special low budget shoots trying to save cash.

 

As for spending your own money I second the advice of not doing it.

DON'T SPEND YOUR OWN CASH

It doesn't ever help you to do free work and then laid hard earn money into a project

 

If you're afraid that the producer will see you as inexperienced

Then you have to ask yourself are you capable of doing this job.

 

If you know you're capable then don't worry about it

Just be confident and if anybody gives you lip inform them you know what you're doing

And then prove it with you work.

 

Besides how much hell can they give you

You're working for free for them

(And take it from experience deferred payment is usually for free)

[Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith]

Many of the shoots I've worked in the DP usually doesn't do steadicam work

Instead they pay sh*tloads of money to have someone else do it.

 

Sometime a Steadicam operator is hired to DP as well but this is rare

And the situaions are usually in special low budget shoots trying to save cash.

 

As for spending your own money I second the advice of not doing it.

DON'T SPEND YOUR OWN CASH

It doesn't ever help you to do free work and then laid hard earn money into a project

 

If you're afraid that the producer will see you as inexperienced

Then you have to ask yourself are you capable of doing this job.

 

If you know you're capable then don't worry about it

Just be confident and if anybody gives you lip inform them you know what you're doing

And then prove it with you work.

 

Besides how much hell can they give you

You're working for free for them

(And take it from experience deferred payment is usually for free)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well I am actually getting paid, but that's only after we shoot the first episode and send it to the TV company (As soon as the company actually gets the money from the TV stations) I am definitely up and capable for the job, but they may have wanted me steadicam trained or something. For now they will have to deal with a slight handheld look. Thing is we want the pilot episode to look good enough to go on TV, although I'm not sure if the company I?m working with can afford or are willing to hire a steadicam op. I'll find out some more details on Thursday when were shooting the series intro.