Help with Chimeras

gnasr · February 25, 2005

Hi everybody... i'm really new in this forum, just registered yesterday.

I'm shooting a video for a rock band in Vision 2 7217. I'll be desaturating the colors to get b&w.

We'll be shooting in a very old hotel room with big windows and the director wants to shoot against the windows to get some silhoute look, but still with shadow detail. The windows are not a problem cause they face some trees and a wall, not so bright.

It's ok if the windows expose for 2 stops over to get them white and the skins 1.5 to 2 stops under. i was thinking in getting something around f2.8 to keep shallow depth.

We cannot turn on big wattage lamps, cause the place is really old and would not support, or afford for a generator.

So, for the wide shots i would bounce 3 1k fresnels on the oposite wall, for the fill and let the windows make the key and backlight. Is that a nice guess? I'm affraid is not enough.

For the close ups, i want to try a chimera with a 1k fresnel close to subject's face. would it be too little light? how many stops i loose with chimera boxes? any other suggestions?

This is really low budget as usual, i'm a student, just 3 works as dp on film, some experience as focus puller though. I'm from Brazil, so excuse my english.

I'll go telecine. ah, and the room is about 20ft wide from wall to wall. I have some other grip to use as flags, reflectors, etc...

thankx

Laurent Andrieux · February 26, 2005

The basics sound fine but you didn't mention how you will match the light thru the window and lighting the subject backlight with your 1 k fresnel in front, considering the color temperature.

Is the window "neutral" ? are you going to gel it ? That would be a good point. Helping you having less contrast beetween foreground and background, and let you use the fresnel with no gel. Remember a full ctb cuts 2 stops, while a full cto only cuts 2/3 of a stop. You actually might like better not gel for the "perfect" color balance, ie let the window light be a bit cold or/and let the inside light a bit warm, but no correction at all may look a bit hard...

Considering the chimera, it depends on the diffusion you put on it. It then would be lower just as a diffusion would...

It sounds like a good idea to me to use it to fill in the CU but mind that the light on the face should match the wide shot anyway...

EDIT> Sorry : re-reading your post I notice you go B/W. I don't know why, but since you shoot color neg and not B/W, I think I would do the correction anyway...

Edited February 26, 2005 by laurent.a

gnasr · February 26, 2005

Thank you very much for your help...

It wasn't in my plans to gel the lights or the windows. Should a worry with color correction even going for b&w? There are some exterior shots, should i go for an 85 in front of the lens? I don't really know if it could affect badly the exposure or contrast. What is the drawback of shooting without correction?

The thing is we got 2 rolls of 7217 from Kodak for free, and the band really likes b&w.

Thanxs again

Laurent Andrieux · February 27, 2005

Since the neg is balaced for tungsten, it may not be a brilliant idea to shoot it daylight with no correction. It will give you a wrong reading for exposure, I think.

Another point is, since the b/W job will be done in post, may be it's better to have a "normal" neg to unsaturate colors, than a bluish one or color contrast one.

Third, you never know if ever somebody one day wants to have these images in color... Who knows ?

I think that if you are sure you want b/W all the way thru, just shoot a B/W neg ! then you can mix colors etc... more easily but it's going to be difficult to anticipate the rendreing with your eyes on the set only...

Edited February 27, 2005 by laurent.a

Glenn Hanns · February 28, 2005

Hi,

If your going B+W and as long as your going to stay B+W you need not worry about your colour temp values, be more concerned with contrast values in the shot. But as someone mentioned, going colour later might be a good idea for the fickle Music Video market so keep this in mind.

If I was shooting this I would work out what levels can be achieved with you lights in the space in the foreground and then just let your background go over. +3 +4 +5 onwards doesnt matter, white is white is white. If you do use colour at some stage and you DONT want to corrrect on your lamps or the lens to get some extra stops and you dont mind your background being blue, you can always colour correct your footage in post. If your base fill is T1 I would use some smaller spots (par cans/dedo's etc.) on the forground players as liners or accents on their faces/instruments.

Just my 2 cents..Hope it goes well.

Cheers.

gnasr · February 28, 2005

:) Thank you for your help!

So, I guess I must use filtration when I shoot outside. It's better to work outdoors with 125 ASA or less. For indoors, I need all the sensitivity the neg offers me, so I will just assume the blue from the windows and if I go color someday I color correct, right?

Last question: Going 4 or 5 stops over don't make the white spread trough the negative? and of course I loose detail over that areas, right?

[]s

Glenn Hanns · March 1, 2005

:) Thank you for your help!

So, I guess I must use filtration when I shoot outside. It's better to work outdoors with 125 ASA or less. For indoors, I need all the sensitivity the neg offers me, so I will just assume the blue from the windows and if I go color someday I color correct, right?

Last question: Going 4 or 5 stops over don't make the white spread trough the negative? and of course I loose detail over that areas, right?

[]s

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It wont spread or halite unless you put diffusion on the lens. So keep it clean. Yes you will loose detail in the BG but if your opened up all the way this will go out of focus.

G.

gnasr · March 2, 2005

What about grain? Will I have more grain on those really bright areas of overexposure?

Do you guys recommend overexposing the neg by 1/3 to get a denser negative with more shadow detail?

Your inputs will be very useful next friday... Maybe I can post some of the results in this forum later.

Thank you all

gnasr · March 11, 2005

Just went through shooting and telecine routine.

I must say that I'm really impressed with the sharpness, latitude and grainless of 7217 Vision 2 stock. It looks like 35.

The video ended up in b&w and the look is amazing.

Exposed the neg as 160 ISO for a slighty denser and grainless image and got the contrast higher and some highlight defocusing in post (da vinci 2k). This stock is really low con and it has information from 5 stops under.

I'll try to post some pictures in the next few days.

Thanx again for the inputs in these forum.