Guest Ian Marks Posted February 26, 2005 Share Posted February 26, 2005 Yesterday I stopped by Pro8mm in Burbank to pick up a demo DVD. I've only shot Kodachrome in Super 8 and I wanted to see what their line of negative stocks looked like when transfered to video. I thought the big issue would be sharpness, but most of the footage on the DVD is impressively sharp. The grain is there, to be sure, but on the slower stocks the image holds together pretty well. It's... well... a nice "filmic" look. The problem I have with the footage on the DVD is that every shot is jittery. I don't think they included a single shot taken with a locked-off, tripod mounted camera. Instead, it's all hand-held, shaky as hell, kids-going-to-the-prom home movie stuff, which makes it very hard to get a sense of how stable the Super 8 image is. What I would have liked to have seen is some professionally lit and shot stuff, so that I can get a real sense of how good this gauge can look when someone who knows what he's doing takes pains to make it look as good as possible. My big concern is basic registration, or image "weaving." The guy at Pro8mm told me that unsteadiness is an inherent quality of Super 8. I know that the pressure plate is built in to the film cartridge, and so there's going to be a problem with whatever camera I shoot with. Before I waste a lot of time and money shooting and transferring unsteady footage, could someone tell me if there's a particular make of Super 8 camera that provides the best possible registration? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S8 Booster Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 Nikon R10 has an aditional stop pin to stabilize the image and it can do wonders with improving registration. I believe the weaving you saw is at least partly a transfer issue. I got this too with my PRO8 evaluation material. Never had this problem with my projected films/same cam. Also there is avery special Mekel engineered cam with a stop pin but this is designed for special high speed purposes and it is rarely avialable. Made in small numbers. R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Trevor Swaim Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 The leicina special is renown for its rock solid registration. beaulieu's are also quite solid. the problem is usually a transfer issue. if you have the telecine zoomed out to see the sprocket holes and use a program like adobe aftereffects to align them the jittery image and weave usually disappears, at least with higher end cameras. great grandma's old keystone is not likely to be a imaging champ ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Downes Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 My Chinon has good registration as well. With Pro8, I've found the transfers they do are shaker than average, honestly. I love their film, but never use them for telecine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Pacini Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 I shot most of my Super 8 with a Nikon R-10, which as has been noted, is super steady, but honestly, with any of the top models, in good shape, I don't think it's an issue. Certainly not bad considering how small the image size is in S8. I have the Pro8mm DVD also, and I was not impressed with it at all. The images look like they are intentionally over-jerky hand held shots, as if they are trying to hide something, which knowing them, I tend to believe. That, and their transfers I've seen seem waaaay oversaturdated, and I've shot most of these stocks, so no, it's not just the way that stock looks. It's great when a place can be rude, overpriced, AND not know what the hell they're doing. Matt Pacini Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Marks Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 Thanks for all the comments, everybody. Can anyone recommend a place for transfers in the Los Angeles area that won't laugh at me for shooting Super 8? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Downes Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 Most places I've delt with might laugh, but your money is as green as everyone elses. You might look at Yale tho, they do a lot of S8 work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Pacini Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 I wouldn't worry about anyone laughing at you. I transferred my Super 8 feature at Sunset Post, and they were great. The owner even came in and comlimented me on my footage, and this is a big pro place. Many places will telecine S8, but the biggest issue is; do they have a S8 gate or not. If not, then a gate rental charge will be added in, so unless you're transferring lots of footage, it's not worth it. So I'd say try Yale out, since they have a gate. Matt Pacini Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Marks Posted March 2, 2005 Share Posted March 2, 2005 I think that Yale only has a telecine arrangement - I was looking for a Rank or something comparable. Matt, I didn't know you had shot a S8 feature. I'll check out Sunset Post - doubt I'll get the compliments you did, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xoct Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 Even though they're in Seattle, I'd check out Flying Spot. Say, are the Nizo cameras rock steady? Anyone have any experiences with the 6080's steadiness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raffinator Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 "I shot most of my Super 8 with a Nikon R-10, which as has been noted, is super steady, but honestly, with any of the top models, in good shape, I don't think it's an issue. Certainly not bad considering how small the image size is in S8." I have a Nikon R8 and the steadiness is not a problem. This guy's website describes the Nikon R-10/8 in some detail, including the two clawed pressure plate: http://home.pacbell.net/mnyberg/super8mm/super8_33.html Hope this helps, Raffi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Alessandro Machi Posted March 18, 2005 Premium Member Share Posted March 18, 2005 Film and Video Transfers of Northridge California and I spoke about this issue, and after some experimentation on their part, they determined that the digital capstans work better than the analog capstans (I hope I have my terms correct). So those zillions of Mark III's floating around have lots of improvements and additions that can be made to them but not everyone puts the bucks in and actually does them. So one Mark III can have weave, but another does not because it may have additional cards installed and has been properly serviced. Weave can also be a product of something besides the transfer. Just thought I'd ahem, clear that up. :ph34r: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Hamrick Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 I did a registration test with a Canon 1014 a Nikon R-8 and a Beaulieu 4000 series as well as the earlier 2000S.All of the cameras showed slight jitter but no worse than a lot of 16mm cameras.In fact the super 8 cameras fared better (and consider this is using a Craven backwinder to do the test with a super 8 cart)than a Bell and Howell 70 DR and one of my Bolexes I was using at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byron Karl Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 Hi Ian, let me preference this by saying I have not used this product before so I have no idea how well it works. You can purchase a removeable metal pressure plate that fits into your film cartriage from a German company. They claim this resolves the problem of noticable registration problems. More to the point, there is a link to view footage of several test cards filmed with and without the additional pressure plate. Let me know your experience, if you try this out. http://www.andecfilm.de/html/bildstand_e.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Marks Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 I have seen this product mentioned, but from what I've heard it isn't all it's cracked up to be. If it were really effective, I think many of the more experienced Super-8 shooters on this board would be using it and recommending it. Also, isn't that a lot of money for what is basically a little bit of metal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Wells Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 Even though they're in Seattle, I'd check out Flying Spot. Say, are the Nizo cameras rock steady? Anyone have any experiences with the 6080's steadiness? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I have used a 6080 extensively, and it really is a superb camera. Very good registration, and the schneider lens is really sharp with excellent resolving capability. They are also very robust, which I can testify to having snowboarded miles and miles with one hanging from my neck! I have used it extensively with K40 and the negative stocks from both Pro8 and Kodak direct. Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Ball Posted March 24, 2005 Share Posted March 24, 2005 I've shot a lot of film with my trusty Elmo Super 106 and never noticed jitter, even projected in a theater. A lot of people even assumed it was 16mm. I have, however, experienced some bad film chain transfers that made the picture jump all over the place. Anyone else have love for the Elmo Super 104, 106, 110 series? I don't think they get the respect they deserve. And you can get them dirt cheap. My footage was all shot at 24fps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Christopher Heston Posted March 26, 2005 Share Posted March 26, 2005 I've shot a lot of film with my trusty Elmo Super 106 and never noticed jitter, even projected in a theater. A lot of people even assumed it was 16mm. I have, however, experienced some bad film chain transfers that made the picture jump all over the place. Anyone else have love for the Elmo Super 104, 106, 110 series? I don't think they get the respect they deserve. And you can get them dirt cheap. My footage was all shot at 24fps. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If your elmo's footage is as good as you say it is, please do post it. -Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Ball Posted March 27, 2005 Share Posted March 27, 2005 If your elmo's footage is as good as you say it is, please do post it. -Chris <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Wish I could, but none of it is digitized yet. I'll get around to that eventually. I'm still very analog. :unsure: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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