Jan Doggen Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 Hi, I am considering purchasing a mini35-type adapter and I would also like to buy either a minimal set of primes or else a basic zoom lens. The thing is, I have a photography background so I don't know what cine lenses are good and which ones are somewhat affordable. I would like to have a set of 4 to 5 lenses or 1 zoom. I would like to get the equivalents of what on a 35mm photocamera would be: 28mm, 35mm, 50mm, 70mm, 85mm. Now the big question is: will I be able to get 2nd hand lenses in these focal lengths for a total of about $2500/ 2000 euro? I know I won't be able to buy superfast lenses for this kind of money but when I need better lenses I would rent. I just want a basic set so I can go out and shoot whenever I want without having to rent. Thanks in advance for any advice... JD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewbuchanan Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 5 PL mount prime lenses for $2,500? You would be lucky to buy 5 PL mount adpaters for that. Not that I am trying to discourage you, but I have been looking for a PL mount set of lenses for around $5,000 for a while and let me tell you there aren't many... and any PL sets that are under $5,000 you don't want to own. You might be able to get a Cooke zoom or an older Angenieux for that, but it would be a slow lens. Here's what you might consider: Try to get a good set of Arri S or Arri B mount lenses (or build one) and get PL adapters put on them. Visualproducts.com has some good clean peices of glass in Arri S for cheap. I bought my lenses there nd I have been very happy with them. I also think there is a pretty complete 5 lens set of cooke speed panchros on ebay right now. This is what I use as my prime lens package and people really love the look they give (I have never used them with an adapter or a mini35 though). Of course, using adapters isn't ideal - and you have to add focus rings etc. to get the most out of some of the older lenses. Another option might be to adapt some Russian glass to PL... I see lots of nice Konvas lenses for cheap and they make PL adapters for those. I also have some Optars, and they are damn good lenses. $2,500 would rent a lot of lenses... and probably make you some good friends at the rental house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted March 3, 2005 Premium Member Share Posted March 3, 2005 Hi, You are insane. You're talking about spending more on the lenses than you did on the entire acquisition system. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Doggen Posted March 4, 2005 Author Share Posted March 4, 2005 $2,500 would rent a lot of lenses... and probably make you some good friends at the rental house. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The problem with rental is that IF I decide to get that adapter, it's because I want to be able to shoot when and where I want to and obviously if I have to rent lenses all the time then that won't happen. I did hear some good things about that 20-100 cooke zoom but I guess I would have to test a T3.something lens on the adapter first to see how much light is left and how workable it is. That adapter also works with photography lenses so I could just use good nikon glass for my own projects and rent when it matters... but obviously there are some trade-offs with photography lenses on a motion camera. What (if any) are the downsides of using ARRI S lenses with a PL mount adapter? JD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewbuchanan Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 Hi, You are insane. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Once again, Phil has captured that delicate linguistic subtly that the British are so famous for. He is right, though. You will at least $200 per PL adapter, even if you get cheap ones off ebay. SO, even if you get an old Zeiss for $400 you would have to add a $200 adapter... things could still get pretty expensive (though you might be able to meet your $2,500 budget (with a nice 4 lens set - 18, 24, 50, 75). I might also consider getting a Nikon mount for the P+S and getting some Nikkors. All my super telephoto lenses (those past 150mm) are Nikkors (old ones too). And I am always happy with the results they give me. Plus they are CHEAP. You could probably find a nice set of 6 lenses for under $700. Plus 52mm - 72mm Screw in filters are CHEAP. The problem with adpaters? They just aren't the most solid way to mount a lens. And they can slide out of adjustment causing focus problems (though this would be more of a problem with film). Search this forum or google for more info about this. It's a great time for you euro based guys to buy stuff here in the US. The dollar sucks right now, no thanks to our "president". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Doggen Posted March 7, 2005 Author Share Posted March 7, 2005 I was considering using still lenses but I'm reading about how they're not really suitable... but I reckon it's the best way to go for my personal projects. But you know what sucks? I'm all kitted out with canon EF lenses and of course those have no iris-control on the lens itself. So I'll have to get some nikon lenses. And yes, it's great that the $ is so low right now, but since both the P+S technik mini35 and the Movietube adapters are made in (or rather designed in and marketed from) Germany, that doesn't affect the price. For lenses etcetera, B&H is the place where I shop these days. And yes, Phil was right in a way about being insane... but as I said before, I have no grasp of the 35mm cine lens market. jd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rik Andino Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 I was considering using still lenses but I'm reading about how they're not really suitable... but I reckon it's the best way to go for my personal projects. But you know what sucks? I'm all kitted out with canon EF lenses and of course those have no iris-control on the lens itself. So I'll have to get some nikon lenses. jd <{POST_SNAPBACK}> How about getting the Canon EF adapter for the XL1s/2 You already have lenses you can use Canon EF lenses are obviously not Nikkors but they're still pretty good And are very useful for your purposes... Anyways you should consider the EF adapter... Good Luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Doggen Posted March 8, 2005 Author Share Posted March 8, 2005 How about getting the Canon EF adapter for the XL1s/2 You already have lenses you can use Canon EF lenses are obviously not Nikkors but they're still pretty good And are very useful for your purposes... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Uhm... because I don't own a XL1s/2... Why would you assume that? Plus as you should know, that doesn't change the DOF which is what the mini35-type adapters are all about. As for the Canon EF vs. Nikkor statement: both systems have equally good lenses these days but at least Canon has good Dslr's to mount them on. Get your facts straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio Barbosa Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 Cool, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Neary Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 I was considering using still lenses but I'm reading about how they're not really suitable... but I reckon it's the best way to go for my personal projects. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If your personal projects don't involve ACs and/or a follow focus mounted to your camera, then still lenses aren't so bad to use. Their main shortcoming (other than color matching issues) are their incompatibility with follow focus gears, and their somewhat short focus-throws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted March 8, 2005 Premium Member Share Posted March 8, 2005 Hi, If I were hell bent on doing this, I'd definitely look at stills lenses. Even buying a cheap PL mount zoom is thousands; it's not worth it just to end up something that's still just miniDV. Better to put that money into a better camera, even if you still want to own. I think people put far too much store in this stuff. You can achieve short depth of field on video with proper technique, and I find the results of the mini35 on a PD-150 to be horribly soft. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Doggen Posted March 8, 2005 Author Share Posted March 8, 2005 Hi, If I were hell bent on doing this, I'd definitely look at stills lenses. Even buying a cheap PL mount zoom is thousands; it's not worth it just to end up something that's still just miniDV. Better to put that money into a better camera, even if you still want to own. I think people put far too much store in this stuff. You can achieve short depth of field on video with proper technique, and I find the results of the mini35 on a PD-150 to be horribly soft. Phil <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Actually I'm thinking of buying the 'Movietube';I have gotten a DVD with some 'virgin' footage and it looks pretty sharp. Plus it has some other advantages... I have also found workarounds for getting more DOF with my vx2000 by increasing distances between the in-focus and OOF objects but it just isn't always possible and practical. I'm so used to having total DOF control with a pro SLR that I often find it so frustrating to have all that DOF in video. The reason why I would like to stick with DV for a lot of smaller projects is that the editing is so fast and easy... I'm from the school of "film too much footage and make it in editing" which is not very compatible with film costwise... Though I fully aggree that film is film and video-with-and-adapter is not film. Each has its place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rik Andino Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 Uhm... because I don't own a XL1s/2... Why would you assume that?Plus as you should know, that doesn't change the DOF which is what the mini35-type adapters are all about. As for the Canon EF vs. Nikkor statement: both systems have equally good lenses these days but at least Canon has good Dslr's to mount them on. Get your facts straight. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'm aware that XL1/2 EF adapter doesn't change the Depth of Field of a lens But the Mini 35 adapter doesn't change the Depth of Field of a lens either The P+S Technik adapter is designed to allow you to use 35mm lens The same way you would use them on 35mm cameras Meaning you'll have the same angel of view as in 35mm So most of your lenses won't look like telephoto lenses When you mount them on your DV camera... But the depth of field of a lens stay the same no matter what you mount it on Get your facts straight :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Doggen Posted March 10, 2005 Author Share Posted March 10, 2005 I'm aware that XL1/2 EF adapter doesn't change the Depth of Field of a lensBut the Mini 35 adapter doesn't change the Depth of Field of a lens either The P+S Technik adapter is designed to allow you to use 35mm lens The same way you would use them on 35mm cameras Meaning you'll have the same angel of view as in 35mm So most of your lenses won't look like telephoto lenses When you mount them on your DV camera... But the depth of field of a lens stay the same no matter what you mount it on <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Oh really? I didn't know that. Really. You saved me right there. Duh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Bluestone Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 I have used the Mini35 quite a lot with Nikon lenses. They work fine and are optically excellent. The only drawback is if you want to use a follow focus, although I have heard of someone in the US who can attach a gear to a Nikkor. If you are from a stills background, it may even be more familiar for you to use Nikkors. It is best to use primes (f2.0 or larger), but I have successfully used a f2.8 Sigma zoom. Quite honestly, the shortcomings of DV hide a lot of problems that would show up on film, including focusing "inaccuracies" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted March 11, 2005 Premium Member Share Posted March 11, 2005 Hi, > Quite honestly, the shortcomings of DV hide a lot of problems that would show up on > film, including focusing "inaccuracies" I'm not sure that's entirely true. The resolution problems of tiny quarter-inch cameras do, but DVCAM can deliver sharp pictures depending on the picture content. I don't find it hides focus issues. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rik Andino Posted March 12, 2005 Share Posted March 12, 2005 Oh really? I didn't know that. Really. You saved me right there. Duh! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well if you didn't like my response Maybe you shouldn't have been so arrogant in your response I don't like acting like a d**k But I also don't like getting d**k responses When I'm only trying to help... For the future keep in mind a phrase like: Get your facts straight! Isn't conducive to a friendly conversation... I'm not trying to school you in social ethics... just pointing out the reason for my responses Friendliness & politeness are usually rewarded with the same But if you bring your ego you'll bump into others egos... Whichever scenario you like best...you choose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Doggen Posted March 12, 2005 Author Share Posted March 12, 2005 When I'm only trying to help... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> my point was that your reply was quite a useless answer to my question, i.e. suggesting a EF-adapter for a camera I don't have when I am asking about lenses for the mini35. phil calling me insane was actually a more helpful reply. but yeah i shouldn't have reacted that way. i should not have reacted at all. so, i'm a d1ck in your book, well i can handle that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Mark Sasahara Posted March 15, 2005 Premium Member Share Posted March 15, 2005 Jan I think you're being a bit rude. Rik was suggesting that you use an XL1, or 2 for aquisition and use the EOS adapter with your lenses and try that as a way to cut costs, etc. It may not have been the answer you were looking for, but there's no reason to be ungrateful, he's trying to help you solve your problem. If you read your post you'll see that his answer was trying to point you in a useful direction. When you are drowning, do not criticise the color of the rope being thrown to you, for it may be withdrawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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