Film Festivals

[DD McKellar]

Hi!

Can anyone tell me the difference between Narrative Short vs. Experimental Short? When submittting a short film to some festivals, they make a distinction here that I'm not familiar with. I know "narrative vs. documentary" , but this one I need help understanding. Thanks!

[Gordon Highland]

I would imagine the narrative short follows a specific storyline where the characters' dialogue and actions in the scenes lead to natural conclusions, i.e. "plot-driven," whereas the experimental short may still have an actual story but is more interested in breaking new ground to achieve it regarding the visual style or sound -- that the journey was seemingly more important than the destination. These tend to have less dialogue, too.

[Robert Hughes]

OK, I'll bite -

 

A film may be a feature length film, which means it's a full program by itself, or it may be a short film, which naturally is not as long; compare to a full-length novel versus a novellette or short story. Back in the early days of movies, a "one reeler" short film lasted about 20 minutes, because that's how long one reel of 35mm film would go through a projector at 16 frames per second.

 

A narrative is simply a story, usually fictional, and a narrative film is one that tells a story. Usually a narrative has actors playing the parts of characters. Just about every Hollywood movie and every television series episode is a narrative film.

 

An experimental film may or may not have any storyline, actors, or other characteristic elements of a narrative film. An experimental film can be about anything; the character of light, the process of filmmaking, the distortion of time, or the illusion of the senses. If you have a modern art center in your town, you may want to pay them a visit. They should be well stocked with film programs that fit the experimental category.

[Rik Andino]

Having just viewed a screening

That mostly contained "experimental shorts" this past weekend

I have MY own take on the differences between both.

 

A Narrative Short (as mentioned)

Is a fictional story usually containing characters and plots...etc...

 

Whereas...

 

An Experimental Short is:

Anything that utterly vexes the audience

 

Has people looking at their programs to see how long it is...

 

Contain strange noises, inexplicable sexual references,

& music from The Doors, The Velvet Underground, or Sonic Youth

 

Has the audience mumbling at some point in time: "I paid $10 bucks for this!"

 

& when interviewed on the film the Director usually responds:

"It's a personal depiction of my inner angst & desire to go to the bathroom."

 

"I painted the frames myself." :huh:

 

"I was inspired by the architecture of Frank Lloyd Wright & Minoru Yamasaki"

 

Or

"This was my way of participating in democracy."

 

 

:) :D :P

 

 

I apologize to all the experimental filmmakers I offended

But try sitting down and watching 3 hours of the stuff! :o

Edited March 29, 2005 by Rik Andino

[drew_town]

Come on Rik!

 

When I'm at a festival I look forward to the experimentals. I can't sit through a whole day of characters and dialog. Granted there are some outright weird ones in which the television series Family Guy commented on by making their own student experimental. Quite funny I might say.

 

Experimentals are shorts/features that cannot be described as a narrative, comedy, or documentary. They often use their medium to make comments or critiques. The films are often centered around ideas and expressions rather than plots or characters. There can also be narratives with experimental attributes. I would put movies like Tarnation and Punch Drunk Love in this category. A lot of French movies use this technique.

 

A lot of people aren't responsive to experimentals, which is a shame. I just finished what I think is one of the best experimental shorts I've done. I thought it was visually strong and relayed its message quaintly but effectively. I wanted to center this short around the thoughts and perspective of a mentally challenged young adult. I started the short with what I thought the audience would bring to the table- sympathy and/or apathy for such a character. I gradually brought in the main character's perspective, which coincidentally was quite cheerful, bliss, and simple and contrasted this change with the other characters. I used a lighting design to switch between the perspectives. The movie primarily worked on a visual level and contained very little dialog. I was pleased with it.

[Dan Salzmann]

I have seen just as many dull "narrative" films as dull "experimental" films.

Matter of fact. the music in dull experimental films tends to be more interesting than the dialogue in the vast number of "Sopranos" style short films.

Often if film has no dialogue yet has live action it gets called experimental.

[Rik Andino]

One of my film professors used to hate the term experimental film

He used to say: "An experiment is something that usually doesn't work

It's like a prototype or an idea that's yet to be fully realized."

 

I when I usually think of experimental films

I really think of conceptual films...made by pretentious artist

Films that do their best to defy the audiences expectations...

That offer very little explanation for thier existence

and make no connection with their audience.

 

Most conceptual films lack any form of plot or dramatic arc,

contain characters with no connections to anything else within the film,

distracting audio&visuals--many even lack discernible visuals!

 

Punch Drunk Love is a narrative film...there is plot there

Characters that can be followed through the storyline & relate to the PLOT

 

Tarnation is the same way it's a documentary that follows a person's life

There's some form of connection there!

 

Albiet both of these movies are extremely unconventional

You can still understand where they are going and what they are saying

Ergo they've been well recieved by the public.

 

While I do agree there's an awful lot of bad narrative films

At least when you come out from watching one you know it was bad

And why you didn't like it at all.

When you watch a conceptual art film you don't know what the hell you watched

And you feel ripped-off because you had no way of ever connecting with it

And didn't get a chance to make a real opinion about it.

 

It true alot of these films are making "important comments on society"

But how can someone understand it?

It just as easy to make comments and critques doing a narrative film...

Well actually it's harder to do it with a narrative film but folk'll understand you.

 

Filmmakers should be storytellers--we should not run from narrative

We should not have an aversion to telling stories--that's the purpose of filmmaking.

 

 

And anyone who thinks watching bad dialogue and crummy acting is horrible

Should sit for 25min watching scratched emulsion, static, and white noise :o

I don't even think POWs are put through this torture. ;)

[Mark Allen]

I would for the most part agree with Rik.

 

I think some people will sometimes think that because unnatural things happen in the short that it might be considered experimental while this actually happens all the time. Cronenberg is making narrative films as strange as they might be. David Lynch is experimenting to some degree, but even his theatrical projects would not be considered experimental vs. narrative. When he was projecting film onto sculptures - that was experimental.

 

If the movie is 70% or more the kind of things you would see in most movies, you can figure it's narrative.

 

I would point to something like mk12.com's infinity and such as experimental.

 

You could (and probably should) always contact the festival and ask for their definition though - that's the safest bet.

[drew_town]

I totally get where you're coming from Rik, and I think I'm very fortunate to have been exposed to what I would consider to be a collection of talented and noteworthy experimentals. I don't like a lot of experimentals that I see just like I don't like a lot of narratives. But I don't dislike the form just because there's some purposeless experimentals out there. I think a short or feature should center around its goal, and the movie has to accomplish its goal in order to be successful. If all a movie does, regardless of whether its experimental or not, is confuse you, it wouldn't be a successful movie (box office $$$ aside).

 

As far as Tarnation and Punch Drunk Love are concerned, sure they're narratives. But what I said was they had some experimental attributes to them. David Lynch is another good example. If a short exists just to be weird, what's the point. I think it's great for filmmakers to use their medium to its fullest potential and bend the rules a little bit. Who wants to see the same old "boy meets girl, boy loses girl, boy gets girl back" thing rehashed a million times? As far as filmmakers being storytellers, I think ideas are more what filmmakers should be relaying. And many experimental shorts work with form in a more direct approach to relay ideas.

 

I don't like experimentals just because they're experimentals. I also don't like them because I think they're doing something new or abstract. I like an experimental's means to its goal. And as far as the term "experimental," you can call them whatever you like.

[Robert Hughes]

Or is it that some people just don't like ideas or concepts?

 

"What, no car chase, bullet time or full frontal? I'm outta here!"

[Rik Andino]

Sorry if I'm coming too harsh on all them experimental filmmakers

 

But it's just I was so peeved at having to pay 10 bucks

To see 3 hrs of it this weekend. :angry:

 

Anyways we need experimental filmmakers...

They come up with ideas that can later be used in narrative films.

 

Also they make for good music video concepts.

Check out all of Tool's and NIN's cool conceptual videos!

 

 

Experimental filmmakers do your thing... :)

 

Just warn the unsuspecting public (like myself)...

Sometimes we need something more than shapes and sounds to connect with

 

 

Good Luck to all you crazy artist! B)

[drew_town]

It's all cool Rik. It's funny you should mention NIN videos. Nine Inch Nails music has been an inspiration to me in a few of my projects. It's not often that name gets tossed around in film talk. If Mad Cats film festival, it's a touring festival, comes to your location check that one out. It's a festival tailored for women directors. They had a nice experimental selection last time I saw them. And it was short and free. ;)