24P and NTSC/PAL issues

[GeorgeSelinsky]

Hello all,

 

I have been budgeting a show meant for TV broadcast in PAL and NTSC countries. It doesn't have the budget to go 16, so DVX100A in 24P mode sounds like a good idea for me. Does the NTSC->PAL conversion from Panasonic's 24P go smoothly? I'm assuming it must go better than 60i->50i. Can it be done with broadcast quality on a desktop computer system or is this one of those "gotta take it to a facility with an expensive gadget" thing?

 

Thanks for advice,

 

- G.

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

Usually 24p material for PAL broadcast would be metaspeeded up to 25, and the sound retimed and repitched. Yes, this has considerably better motion rendering than straight 60i to 50i transfer, although the speeded-up action is not ideal and the resolution will still make it look soft and you have to go through complex 24p-in-NTSC-world post. For this reason, I would suggest that you shoot 25p and post in PAL - the post becomes easy, the resolution is higher and it's more desirable for things to look 4.5% slow than 4.5% fast. Might be more farting about than you're willing to deal with, though.

 

Phil

[GeorgeSelinsky]

Usually 24p material for PAL broadcast would be metaspeeded up to 25, and the sound retimed and repitched.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hmmm, 4.5% speed difference for a 22 minute sitcom is 1 minute, that's pretty signficant. There would have to be some altered version then for Euro and for US.

 

This problem would exist even if I shot on film, I gather, I think the standard practice in Europe is to transfer at 25. I guess all your US films have a shorter running time than here. I did hear, though, that there is a PAL pulldown for 24 -> 25.

 

The PAL origination idea is inviting, although it's more costly to rent PAL DVX100A's and I'd probably have to get a PAL monitor for editing (and be able to get a backup in case one dies).

 

- G.

[John Sprung]

I did hear, though, that there is a PAL pulldown for 24 -> 25.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I looked at that once, it took less than 5 minutes to make the decision that the motion jerk resulting from one duplicated frame every second was far worse than speeding everything up by 4.1%.

 

All scripted major network prime time entertainment now shoots at 24 fps, be it film or HD tape. The PAL/SECAM markets buy the speed-ups. It actually gives them an extra 2 minutes per hour of commercial inventory.

 

 

 

-- J.S.

[Jon Allen]

Hmmm, 4.5% speed difference for a 22 minute sitcom is 1 minute, that's pretty signficant. There would have to be some altered version then for Euro and for US.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I can't imagine a network complaining about the extra ad time though. ;)

[Thomas Worth]

If you aren't concerned too much with ditching progressive scan, check out DVFilm Atlantis. It's a small software app that employs a "special" pulldown scheme to get 25p material to play back an NTSC legal, 29.97 stream. Don't count on any NLEs or DVD players figuring it out and reconstructing your original 25p stream, though. Here's their site:

 

http://dvfilm.com/atlantis/index.htm

 

Personally, I'd stick with the 4% 25p -> 24p slowdown. I've done it myself, and it works fine. Plus, you retain compatibility with progressive scan video devices (DVD players, etc.).