auto exposure/notching etc Kodak Vision2 500t in a Nizo 801 Macro

Eoin Shea · July 9, 2013

hi there,

looking for some advice for shooting on Kodak vision2 500t on a Nizo 801 Macro. Reading around the forums I find various bits of advice but am wondering if anyone can provide clarity on a few issue (and hopefully end up with all this information in one place).

I've never shot on this newer film before, only Ektachrome and Tri-X

so...

I gather that the camera will not correctly read the Vision2 cartridges. because the maximum they can read is 160asa and vision2 is 500asa.

I'm going to be using an external light meter (A Zeiss Ikon Ikophot). Have I got it right here that I need to clip off the cartridge notch and set the ASA on the light meter to 160 (and not 500), then adjust my exposure settings on the camera from the light meter reading?

do i need the 'bulb' setting on the camera turned on?

any offers of clarity on this issue would be appreciated.

Zac Fettig · July 9, 2013

If you're using an external meter, the internal meter settings are irrelevant. Don't bother clipping the cartridge. Set the external meter to 500. Just punch your meter readings into the camera, and it should be good. Luckily, Vision has a LOT of lattitude. If you're only used to Tri-X and Ektachrome, you're going to be amazed at how easy it is to get usable footage.

Even shooting automatic, you should be able to use the footage. It'll be off by 1 2/3 stops.

Vision2? Is it old stock? Kodak is up to Vision3 now.

If by bulb you mean the internal daylight filter, you should always do it, and color correct with an external filter, if needed (be sure to compensate for it with the light meter!). Or color correct in post.

Eoin Shea · July 9, 2013

Thanks for the fast response.

I got a crate of 20 vision2 rolls cheap, its the format before the current vision3. It's been cold stored so it should be ok. The project im working on is of a very experimental, hand processed nature anyway so super pro images aren't absolutely essential.

Yes, by 'bulb' I mean the outdoor/indoor setting. Most people seem to suggest having the indoor setting will help compensate for exposure. You mind if i ask what filter you would recommend? I've been told I need an ND filter but someone else has also mentioned an 85 filter.

Anyone else got any opinions on this?

Zac Fettig · July 9, 2013

Just a regular 85 series filter, that you'll use when shooting in daylight or daylight balanced lights. I think your camera has a 67mm thread. You can get one at B&H. The letters change the amount it color corrects. And 85B is probably what you want. AN 85A should probably do well also.

Super 8 Cameras usually have a daylight filter built in. The filters built into the camera are usually Gelatine (optically not the best), and they degrade over time. Considering that (Beaulieu aside) no super 8 cameras have been built in 30 years... it's best not to use them.

An ND filter is like a sunglasses lens for a camera. It darkens the light coming into the camera, but doesn't change the color. Since you don't usually change shutter speed on a cinema camera, you only have two ways of reducing light coming into the lens; smaller aperture, or ND filters. It's good to have, and over time, you'll probably build a set of them; but you might want to look at getting a matte box and filters for that before buying a ton of ND filters. That way, you can use them on different camera setups in the future.

Good deal on the film! If it was stored cold, it'll probably be fine.

Eoin Shea · July 9, 2013

Thanks for the tips. I shall do my filter research. I'd heard that the internal filters, not being glass, do have a tendency to warp over time so glass externals are a better option. Going to have to get used to these new requirements now that Ektachrome costs an absolute fortune.

It was a great deal on the film. Think it worked out about £12.50 per cartridge ($18/roll).

Zac Fettig · July 9, 2013

Prices must be a lot higher across the pond! I'm paying $19.99 a roll (Vision3 500T) retail at B&H, and $17.16 direct from Kodak for fresh stock.

Eoin Shea · July 21, 2013

i'm about to start shooting the project i started this thread for. here is what i've learned from asking about beyond this thread:

-do not clip off the cartridge notch

-set the filter switch to 'bulb' (tungsten light), disengaging the internal 85 filter

-attach an external 85 filter (it's a 62mm thread on a nizo 801 macro btw)

-use an external light meter and dial it in for a 500asa film

-take the f.stop reading from the meter and toggle the exposure setting on the camera to match this setting (as you see it in the viewfinder)

-the external 85b filter has a filter factor of 2/3 of a stop. open the iris a further 2/3 of a stop to compensate. this will not show automatically on the nizo 801 macro because the light meter is on the outside of the camera and not in the lens.

-shoot your film

that sound about right to people? or have i got that wrong?

from asking others, mainly people who have uploaded footage to youtube/vimeo, it seems that you can also use the automatic exposure setting with reasonable results.

-automatically the film will render at 1.5 stops overexposed.

-compensate by taking it down 1 stop (eg if you get a reading of f5.6 take it down manually to f8)

-dont take it down 1.5 stops because a little over exposure is preferable on negative film

-compensate for the external filter a further 2/3 of a stop

again, sound about right?

i'm going to shoot a roll with a variety of settings and post the results on here. i've spent so much time researching this that i think it should all be documented. that way anyone else with this setup will have an easier time than i have.

if anyone has any further input/has noticed anything ive got wrong please let me know.

ta

Chris Burke · July 23, 2013

Exposure really depends upon how you want the images to look. If you want lots of room to manipulate the image in post, then over expose. If you want to bake the look in, with little to no wiggle room, then you have to nail the exposure from the start. With Super 8 (especially color negative) you should over expose by at least one whole stop, to give you a better/denser negative. So if you are shooting out doors with an 85 filter up front, your effective iso is 320, overexpose that and you are at 160. keeping in mind that it is older film, I would overexpose a bit more. Also, you will need a ND as well as your 85 outdoors even when rating the film at 160, just to get ƒ16/11 split. I shoot expired 500t outdoors all the time and I love it. you just have to keep in mind that it is grainy and might need to over expose a bit more than usual. Indoors, I would still overexpose, no ND or 85 unless it is daylight lit.

Andrew Kelly · April 1, 2015

Hello there,

I realise this is a long time after original posts on this matter but I am now attempting to shoot for the first time on a Nizo Pro with 500T.

Can you kindly explain your results after all of your doubts prior to filming?

My matters of concern:

- The use of the built in filter (bulb / sun)

- The need of an external filter on the lens - or not. Based on comments doubting the functionality of built in filters for these old cameras.

- Manual f-stop settings.

I really appreciate any advice that can clearly put me in the right direction. So many forum conversations have left me feeling confused with a few contradictions.

Also, if anyone knows of someone I could call and get good advice on the phone in any country, the info would be most appreciated.

Best regards

Andrew