Pulsating red edge fogging, what could it be?

randulff · April 12, 2005

Hello all!

Looking for anwers to what may have caused the following problem:

When sitting down in telecine a couple of days ago to transfer a commercial, I was horrified to discover that the entire first of 4 rolls (S-16, Kodak Vision 250D) had a pulsating red fogging on the right edge, sometimes with "spikes" and occationally spots in other parts of the frame. Parts of the shots were fine, as the fogging came and went.

The speed of the intervals increased throughout the roll, which would suggest that the film was fogged PRIOR to exposure. Having seen mag fogging before, it has usually been white or slightly blue. This wa RED... A couple of people around me have suggested x-ray exposure, but then this must have happened prior to us taking delivery of the stock...

Any advice/experiences on this, as I would like to avoid anything similar in the future...

Attaced a typical frame at its worst...

Thanks!

Bo B. Randulff

www.randulff.com

Sam Wells · April 12, 2005

Light leak in mag on the feed side.

-Sam

Rolfe Klement · April 12, 2005

was the camera in a weird position for the four rolls (dutch tilted etc)

Which camera did this happen on

Did something change after 4 rolls - new loader, new mags, new stock etc

In order to avoid I would

use new film not recans

Use a good changing tent - even for Aaton minima rolls

Tape the mag edges and one from the op side to the AC side - take the tape off and on in the bag

Get a good Loader - check old camera mags for good seals and tight locking mechs at check out

Tape the cans

usual kind of Clapper | Loader stuff

thanks

Rolfe

John Pytlak RIP · April 12, 2005

It doesn't look like X-ray fog, and the consistent red appearance suggests a red light source like a red LED. Does the camera use any sort of red LED timecode? Any chance a loader happened to have a red LED flashlight or "torch" thinking the red light would not fog the film? Although low color temperature tungsten edgefog on a daylight balance film will be reddish-orange too.

You and your lab can always ask Kodak's assistance in investigating the problem. Contact your local Kodak rep in Norway (Kopseng Tore), and he will send the information and any film samples or images you can let them look at to the Kodak Customer Technical Service facility in Chalon-sur-Saone France for analysis. Unopened rolls of raw stock from the same batch are also useful.

NORWAY

Kodak Norge A/S

Lienga 7

1410 Kolbotn, Norway

Phone: +47-66 81 81 81

Fax: +47-66 80 06 12

http://www.kodak.com/cluster/nordic/en/mot...requestid=24095

randulff · April 19, 2005

The reason I was not really considering mag leak is that the pulsing is in 2-3 second intervals (not like timecode), and consistant through the one roll (and camera was in many different positions).

Camera a well-maintained SR III and a well experienced AC.

Lab was LABoratorium in Warsaw

John: I am in Lithuania right now, but cannot find the Kodak rep. on your website...

Thanks guys!

Bo

www.randulff.com

Phil Rhodes · April 19, 2005

Hi,

2-3 second timing would be more or less once per revolution at the outside of a 400ft roll, wouldn't it?

And as to experienced loaders, I've seen very experienced loaders flash rolls, so...

Phil

Felipe Perez-Burchard · April 19, 2005

Here is a long-shot explanation, it happened to me and its the only time I've heard of this.

There was a red flutter similar in tone and opacity only more severe, across most of the frame (but sticking more to camera right side like yours).

The apparent culprit: some kind of leak from the Arriglow - the camera was tested shooting with it on and off and apparently when it was on the blob appeared on the footage (which I didn't get to see).

Others have pointed to a lab problem (the lab and the equipment were run by the same people).

I know the arriglow is something that is going on in the viewfinder and should in no way reach the film plane. I am no expert and this was the explanation I was given (and the test seems to indicate to this).

Now, as opposed to your camera this was an old, probably not very well maintained SR II.

When it happened to me I posted on the subject, but no one had heard of this possibility, so it's possible that I was given bad info.

hope it helps in some way.

-felipe.

JONATHANEDWARDS · April 19, 2005

this happend to me twice with the SR3, on the SR3 i use most there is a orange sticker on the top of the mag and if the mag is not cliped in well the flap at the top of the camera does not go down all the way, it leaves a gap and does not cover the sticker. this is the only explaniation i could come up with at the time and now i make sure its not visable. it has not happend again so far. in both cases the arriglow was not on. the fog i had was on the right side and was vary intermittent.

this might not be the problem your haveing but if you look at the color of the sticker if you can find it, it kind of looks to be the same color as the foging your seeing. as was the same in my case. i think it to be some what far fetched but it worked for me so far and the camera has shot a lot of stuff before and after the foging with out sending it in for any repairs with no bad luck.

sorry i am vary tired and falling asleep so i hope you can understand this. :blink:

Sam Wells · April 19, 2005

2-3 second timing would be more or less once per revolution at the outside of a 400ft roll, wouldn't it?
Phil

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah and the frequency increases as the feed roll gets smaller.........

-sam

Dominic Case · April 20, 2005

The speed of the intervals increased throughout the roll, which would suggest that the film was fogged PRIOR to exposure.

Others have pointed to a lab problem

Clearly not the lab this time: the frequency indicates it happened prior to exposure.

I agree with John - tungsten fogging on daylight stock can have a warm red/orange colour - but this looks quite pink-red (and you seem to have been shooting exteriors so no tungsten light around unless someone turned lights on in the loading room).

Not X-ray.

Was this new stock? Not something that someone opened prior to your AC getting hold of it?

Brent J. Craig · April 20, 2005

I agree with the others - the feed side of the mag was fogging during exposure. The frequency increases during the roll because the feed roll is getting smaller and rotating faster.

It probably wouldn't have been an improperly mounted mag because that problem usually shows as fogging PLUS image unsteadiness or blurring (from the pressure plate not seating).

You said it happened on 4 rolls. Are they from the same mag?

Do you see larger fogged areas of film between shots? In other words, when the camera was sitting without rolling it would allow more fogging to happen on a small section of film.