If I wanted to screw around with film cheaply

[Robert Hughes]

Well, it seems you are really starting from scratch.

 

Quick answers:

- Buy new film from a camera store or directly from Kodak. Any old film coming with a camera is just that, old. It may work, then again it may not.

- Tri X and Plus X are Kodak black and white reversal films. Kodak doesn't make b&w negative films in Super 8 format. "Less latitude" means you're more likely to ruin your shot if you over or underexpose. Like video.

- Super 8 is a tiny format, and anything you do that is less than correct and proper exposure will show up quicker than in one of the larger formats. After you learn what the format can do when shot correctly, then you can experiment with wacky stuff. One nice thing about S8 is the wacky stuff is easy and fun to do and can be artistic, as opposed to bad video, which is just bad.

- "Neg" is short for negative, just like the camera film used for still prints. Reversal film is equivalent to slide film.

 

I recommend you get a copy of Lenny Lipton's "The Super 8 Book" or Kris Malkiewicz "Cinematography". We all read these books before the days of Internet forums and instant expert commentary. That's where I learned it.

Edited April 18, 2005 by Robert Hughes

[Josh Bass]

Bing Bing!

 

YOu got it. Yes, starting from scratch.

 

So, what's wrong with just jumping into neg now. . .more expensive?

 

I"ll look into the books. I thought "cinematography" (I thumbed through it briefly at a bookstore once) was about 16 and 35 mm. . ..didn't realize it had anything on super8.

 

Oh, and, I'd still your camera model recommendations, the ones you mentioned around $100. You are referrting to eBay for those prices, yes? Not some secret Super 8. . . um. . .warehouse. . . that I don't know about?

Edited April 18, 2005 by Josh Bass

[Robert Hughes]

Negative is more expensive than b&w or Kodachrome, not only in stock cost, but also because you can't project it at home; you have to get it transferred to video on a professional telecine.

 

There are also several good beginner's level Super 8 web sites out there.

 

Cameras: I just counted 77 auctions on eBay for Super 8 cameras -

 

- eBay -> Cameras & Photo -> Film Cameras -> Movie : search for "Super camera"

 

Chinon, Canon, Nikon, Nizo, Bauer, etc. Try to find one that has 24fps (sound speed).

 

Here's a nice one for cheap: a Nikon Super 8X . Right now its $5.00, it'll probably go up to about $40 or so by the end. Michael Nyberg, the "Super 8 man" says this is a best buy in the used S8 world -

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...7509444407&rd=1

[John Pytlak RIP]

Reversal camera film has the advantage that after processing, you can physically splice it to edit it, and project it directly -- really an extension of "home movies" that have been around since Kodak introduced 16mm B&W reversal film and the CINE-KODAK camera and KODASCOPE projector in 1923:

 

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/products...=0.1.4.28&lc=en

 

Almost all professional motion picture films (both for theatrical release and video) today are shot on negative film, which is much more suited to duplicating, printing, and transfer to video or DI. Reversal films can provide an alternative "look".

[Josh Bass]

Alright, thanks gents.

[Matt Pacini]

I would suggest shooting K-40 because it's going to a make you a much better shooter if you have experience with this stock.

You will learn that exposure is really important, and it will make you more careful. Basically, it's going to train you out of the "point & shoot" habit that many video shooters have.

Also, they have the expiration date right on the box.

 

Now that I think about it, the best deals for Super 8 cameras are some of the really quality cameras, but that aren't high on the collectors lists for minor reasons.

 

Canon 814 or 1014. (The non-XLS versions can be had for about 25%-35% of what the XL-S versions cost).

 

Bauer 709. The 715XL-S is highly sought after, but this little brother is a pretty good camera too.

 

You're just learning, so I wouldn't go through the extra cost of getting your film transferred to higher formats than MiniDV, unless you have access to those decks for free.

The best thing is to be able to shoot as much footage as possible, under as many different lighting situations as possible, to learn how to do things.

Make all the mistakes cheaply, then go for quality & $$$ later.

 

 

Matt Pacini

[Josh Bass]

Is this a sweet camera?

 

Beaulieu 4008 ZM Super 8

 

It looks pretty sweet in pictures.

Edited April 20, 2005 by Josh Bass

[jon w]

top of the line camera, although the battery situation can be a problem. most batterys are dead, recelling them can be done, but i think most people have a dummy socket / plug built to adapt a seperate battery pack.

 

check cameraspro.com?

[Josh Bass]

Thanks. I guess it's bad sign when it's on ebay for like $10, then?

[jon w]

I seriously doubt it'll go for $10.00...

i was shopping for one a couple years ago, and they were averaging 300.00 to 400.00, so i went with a nizo. So if you can get one that works for cheap, i'd go for it! they are the cadilacs of super 8! interchangable lenses! you can get a 25mm angeniuex f.95 in a c-mount for fairly cheap... :)

[Josh Bass]

Ok, so here's a different sort of question:

 

When sorting through the multitude of ads on eBay, one finds a few "guaranteed to be in working condition, tested" etc. type ads, and many more along the lines of "seems to be in working condition, but I have no way to test it/it's my dead uncle's/found it in my attic after 25 years."

 

What kinds of problems are most common with a camera that hasn't been tested? Are they costly/difficult problems to fix?

Edited April 26, 2005 by Josh Bass

[Robert Hughes]

Assuming the camera wasn't broken when it was put into storage, the problems you'll run into are those of materials degradation over time. Batteries left in place corrode and wreck the contacts, rubber belts and rollers distintigrate, oils and greases dry up. If the equipment was left in damp conditions you may also acquire a problem with mold and mildew, which is a problem for lenses in that it irreparably etches the glass elements.

 

Many of the problems above can be rectified at home with a good cleaning and lubrication and a few spare parts, but some problems are line stoppers depending on the extent of the damage. I've bought about a dozen cameras off eBay in the past year and they were all repairable, though one or two smell musty.

[Josh Bass]

Thanks, Robert.

 

 

What do you guys think of the Bolex 280 Macro zoom?

 

I looked it up, for its features, on a site called "Super8List", and it has a decent zoom range (8x), and does 24 fps, though I noticed it doesn't do as much as the R8 I was looking at.

[Robert Hughes]

I haven't worked with a Bolex 280, I've heard it's at least OK.

 

The Nikon R8 is a very nice camera, I would happily use it as my only S8 machine. It's a good size (unlike, say, the Bauer S715XL which takes great pictures but has a large heavy Angenieux lens on it), is sturdy and takes excellent pictures when stopped down a bit.

[Alessandro Machi]

If you get a Super-8 camera and get one that does time lapse, time-exposure and has multiple filming speed options, you can make a cartridge of film last quite a long time. I spent ten nights shooting one cartridge of Super-8 film because it was time-exposure, 3600 frames on a cartridge, each frame exposed between 5-15 seconds.

[Josh Bass]

Yeah, I wanted to screw around with everything. . .shutter angle, different speeds, etc.

 

I'm looking at a couple canon 814s right now.

[Alessandro Machi]

Yeah, I wanted to screw around with everything. . .shutter angle, different speeds, etc.

 

I'm looking at a couple canon 814s right now.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

The Canon's offer a lot, but no time-exposure.

 

The Nizo's with the three digit model numbers I think all offer time-exposure.

[Josh Bass]

Time lapse is something I'm not real interested in right now, so I can let that go.

[Alessandro Machi]

Time lapse is something I'm not real interested in right now, so I can let that go.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I only mentioned it because you said you wanted to do stuff cheaply. Time-lapse, film lasts lots longer. (say that three times fast)

[Josh Bass]

Okay. . .so. . .where do I get my film developed/processed? Did I see on here that Walmart doesn't do it anymore? Do I have to go to this "Dwayne's" place?

 

Since K40 is still available for purchase, is anyone still doing the development?

[Timothy Brown]

Hey Josh,

 

Hey! I know you! I remember you from dvinfo. I guess our quest for quality and knowledge has led us over here to learn from the big boys. :D

 

I have no idea about K40, but I too was where you are with an interest in film and looking for a means to do it inexpensively. I've been working with http://www.movielab.com/ . They do a pretty good job and I've been having 100' rolls converted to mini-dv for about $60. I know... it ain't cheap, but I think the process of shooting, transferring, and editing has been invaluable and worth every penny. Once you know the process, you can shoot and edit anything with anything! Or I hope, at least :blink:

 

Good luck.

[Josh Bass]

Do they develope too?

 

I got a place in Houston that transfers Super8 to tape for 13 cents a foot (translates to $6.50 for a 50ft roll), so I got that covered, but I'm still trying to find out how and where the development process works. This place has a minimum of $35, meaning you have to spend that much or they won't work with you. . .in other words, I'd have to have six rolls transferred to tape at once, or nothing at all.

[Timothy Brown]

Process and transfer for about $60 per 100'!

[Josh Bass]

Well now. . .that's not too bad. Does that translate to $30 for 50 ft? Do they have a minimum (won't process one roll at a time, will only do 3, something like that?) Thanks, Tim. I'm still at DVinfo, by the way, just don't post that often.

[Josh Bass]

Ok. . .so. . .

 

I researched some threads on this site, and apparently, this "Dwayne's" place that processes relatively cheaply has gotten a lot of bad press from members here. Ditto Walmart. The only good place seems to be Switzerland.

 

So. . .

 

Do these prepaid mailers still exist for the K40? If they do, how exactly does that work? Is the idea that the mailer counts as the shipping cost, but there's still a separate fee for the development of the film?

 

How much does processing cost from the Switzerland lab?

 

On another note:

 

Someone mentioned that a new color reversal stock would be available in a few weeks, with many more places available to do the processing. Will the price points for processing and whatnot be the same as with the K40? Would it just be better to hold off for a few weeks until this stock is available, rather than trying to jump in now (there's no REASON for me to purchase film and start playing with it right now, except that, you know, I wanna)?