Guest hubert hofer Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 Hi all, I had been totally set on getting the XL2 last week when a video producer advised me to forget about DV and go for HD instead ie. FX1. He said "the XL2 is outdated technology". How do people in this forum feel about such a statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Josh Hill Posted April 20, 2005 Premium Member Share Posted April 20, 2005 Everything around us is outdated by something. Some people would argue that the HDV compression is not up to par yet. Do you need HDV? Is DV fine enough for you? Are the differences in price worth it? By his argument, don't buy the Sony either because it is outdated by the full sized HD cameras. In fact, don't buy any camera for fear of new technology coming out and making it worthless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hubert hofer Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 Hi Josh, thanks for your relpy. personally I could not agree more with your assessment. What I failed to mention was ; if one makes a doco type video with DV now in 2005-6 will commercial stations still be interested in it if it's not HD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member drew_town Posted April 20, 2005 Premium Member Share Posted April 20, 2005 I honestly was disapointed that the XL2 was not a high defintion camera. It's enough to make me wait on the XLHDV123. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Rinck Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 Yes... the Canon Xl3HDV is the way to go... if you can wait that long (I'd imagine two years from now) ... but just imagine the specs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Alessandro Machi Posted April 20, 2005 Premium Member Share Posted April 20, 2005 Everything around us is outdated by something. Some people would argue that the HDV compression is not up to par yet. Do you need HDV? Is DV fine enough for you? Are the differences in price worth it? By his argument, don't buy the Sony either because it is outdated by the full sized HD cameras. In fact, don't buy any camera for fear of new technology coming out and making it worthless. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If you shoot in standard def and release to the home video market, the choices for the HD viewer are two fold, they can keep the image as is and view your project with black borders on the right and left side of the screen, or they can incorrectly stretch it to fit their HD screen. I think each viewer will find one of these two options more acceptable than the other, so as long as they can choose, the current format should still be acceptable. However, what will the higher ups that actually broadcast, decide. Will standard def projects automatically be relegated to B-movie status simply because they don't stretch? It may prove annoying to the producer or director that their project is being judged by the format used rather than the effort that was put into the project irrespective of format. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rik Andino Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 The XL2 is a very good camera & has some use to it But in a few years (as with every video camera) it'll become outdated Unlike the XL1 or PD150 which had long years of use (people still shoot with it today) The XL2 has come out at the nexus of digital evolution When the DV format is evolving into the HDV format... I can predict that in two years the XL2 will not be very popular... Though still quite useful--you'll have a harder time finding work with it. A video camera's life expectancy is usually 4 years... The XL2 might be shorter because of the new format... If you have to buy because you want it or need it--get it. But be sure to make your investment back quickly... If you're interested in buying a camera check out the new JVC HDV camera... Everyone is gushing about it--hopefully it'll live up to it's expectation... It's price is very similar to the XL2---which is another plus... Good Luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 I wouldn't worry about the XL2 becoming outdated, it's more of less your cinematography skills that count. I mean, look at 28 Days Later, shot on the XL1s, just so happens they had a fantastic DP on set who knew what he was doing, so it just goes to show you really, it doesn't matter what camera you use, just so long as it's ok and it's got the features you really need. For instance I wouldn't buy a consumer miniDV camera over an XL2 because the XL2 has a progressive feature, but I wouldn?t buy a HDW-900 over an XL2 because it costs too much. Once you get into the thousand pound mark, a lot of cameras DO have progressive so there?s no other problems, just work on your cinematography skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landon D. Parks Posted April 21, 2005 Share Posted April 21, 2005 If you shoot in standard def and release to the home video market, the choices for the HD viewer are two fold, they can keep the image as is and view your project with black borders on the right and left side of the screen, or they can incorrectly stretch it to fit their HD screen. I think each viewer will find one of these two options more acceptable than the other, so as long as they can choose, the current format should still be acceptable. However, what will the higher ups that actually broadcast, decide. Will standard def projects automatically be relegated to B-movie status simply because they don't stretch? It may prove annoying to the producer or director that their project is being judged by the format used rather than the effort that was put into the project irrespective of format. I think your failing to relize that most of the higher end SD camera have NATIVE 16:9 chips, As does the XL2. 16:9 or 1.78:1 is the aspect ratio of HD. There should be no problems in having to streatch the image to fit a 16:9 screen, unless you SHOOT in the 4:3 mode, which reduced resolution on a 16:9 chip, so I see no reason. My concern is for people with 4:3 televisions, who have to have black bars at the top and bottom of your screen. But to tell you the truth, a little bacl bars at the top and bottom wouldn't bother me as much as buying a 16:9 HD TV for $6,000 and relizing that most Television is still broadcast @ 4:3 :blink: ..... Thats one of the things I have always hated about the new 16:9 format.... That its primarily only good with DVD and Pay-Per-View channels that do the whole 16:9 HD thing. Even some Basic cable networks broadcast 16:9, but not a lot. I wish everyone would just decide what standard we need, and make it 100%, instead of 16:9 and 4:3.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Josh Hill Posted April 21, 2005 Premium Member Share Posted April 21, 2005 I have a problem with people constantly bringing up 28 Days Later as a testament for DV. I don't think it had to do with his cinematography skills as much as it did the MILLIONS of dollars that was put into it. As well as lenses that most people will never use on their camcorder. 28 Days Later is not an accurate example of what can be done with a consumer camcorder. The other side of coin is Full Frontal. It's a great movie, but the video in it (XL1s PAL with standard lens) pales in comparison to the 35mm portions of the movie. Don't be fooled by bigger budget pics that use DV as an aesthetic. If you had their budgets, you wouldn't be buying a single camera for yourself. I do agree on waiting for the JVC HDV camcorder. I do believe the FX1 is Sony's first foray into the HDV format (I may very well be wrong on this fact). JVC has already put out one HDV camcorder (HD10U, which you can get on ebay for a couple of grand if you really want) so I think this second generation from them will be a step ahead of the competition. Don't be too anxious to purchase a camcorder. Research what is out now, what is coming out, and if there are any major technological breakthroughs that are worth waiting for. I was anxious to get my XL1s, and after I did the DVX100A came out and I was left standing there saying: "poop, I should have waited another six months." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hubert hofer Posted April 21, 2005 Share Posted April 21, 2005 Hi again, I agree 100% with everyone of you. The real problems are that we do not have but should have an international standard in broadcasting. 4x3, 16x9. why can't there be any pressure put onto the high and mighty of the television world to settle for one format or would that be too simple a solution. Same goes with PAL and NTSC. Would it really be so difficult to settle on one? With the coming of HDV would that not be the ideal time to settle down to an international standard? just my broadcast inexperience 3 cents worth. cheers all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rik Andino Posted April 21, 2005 Share Posted April 21, 2005 Hi again,I agree 100% with everyone of you. The real problems are that we do not have but should have an international standard in broadcasting. 4x3, 16x9. why can't there be any pressure put onto the high and mighty of the television world to settle for one format or would that be too simple a solution. Same goes with PAL and NTSC. Would it really be so difficult to settle on one? With the coming of HDV would that not be the ideal time to settle down to an international standard? just my broadcast inexperience 3 cents worth. cheers all. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> In the USofA the gov't (god bless 'em) is putting the pressure on Broadcasters They're pushing them to adopt the HDTV standard as quickly as possible... HDTV is supposed to be that new all encompassing standard It'll finish off the PAL and NTSC rivalry--it'll be an international/global format And it'll end 4x3 reign since it's shot on 16X9--it's really an amazing format! But the problem is it's taking time for everyone to adopt it Especially when HD television sets are so ridiculously expensive. But the HDTV crossover will hit the broadcasting industry Alot sooner than it will hit the average joe TV viewer Give it another 5 years and almost every broadcaster will be shooting in HD Change takes time--so relax! And enjoy the excitement--evolution doesn't happen everyday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Wyndham Posted April 22, 2005 Share Posted April 22, 2005 Okay then. And example of a good DV movie shot on an XL. http://www.soulsearchermovie.com I worked on this. The end result is amazing. I may be bias, but hey, you guys wanted a good example of what can be done... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Mark Sasahara Posted April 24, 2005 Premium Member Share Posted April 24, 2005 The XL2 is still a viable camera and Standard Definition is still a viable format. I think a lot of prosumer SD camera owners on this lower end are a bit worried about being able to payoff their investment, but I think we may be getting a little too worked up about it. I'm still getting work for my XL2 package, in addition to other gigs with other gear. Life is good. I am concerned about losing gigs and I do feel a little like I got bit in the ass, regarding HDV. Kinda wish it was happening next year, but WTF, right? I've only been here in NYC for a year, but things are heating up, I'm getting fairly regular work for the XL2, as I mentioned earlier, so I'm confident that I'll be working it and can pay it off. There are a lot of reality shows that are using SD gear and since most households are SD, I think we're in good shape for the forseeable future. But that is only my opinion, based on my own experiences and what I have seen. Also, how clued in is that producer? A lot of producers are ill-informed and hastily form opinions based on incomplete and/or incorrect info and hunches. Suddenly anything with HD on it is hot and they have blinders and can't see anything else. Will he buy you a camera? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Alessandro Machi Posted April 25, 2005 Premium Member Share Posted April 25, 2005 Maybe it makes sense to focus on the video deck that will accompany the future video format of choice. I'd say that BetaCam SP was the number one choice for both durability, price, and flexibility of options for the 90's and up until now. While Mini-dv and DV-CAM are the current popular choice, those tape formats are not robust enough for multiple avenues of use. People that start on DV-CAM, end up on either digital betacam or BetaCam SP for distribution purposes. Whichever HD format takes over, hopefully the high end video decks will be affordable and offer the versatility that the BetaCam SP decks currently offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Gladwell Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Without having read the other replies and at the risk of repeating what's been said... First of all th FX1 isn't true HD, it's HDV and that carries with it a fairly high compression. Too, there is no way to deliver HDV--no HD DVDs yet, and when they are available, they will be very expensive! So what's the big deal? I would argue the point about the XL2 being "outdated." Nothing stays new or cutting edge for ever--not even HDV! By the time HD is the "standard," like SD has been, I'm confident that the format and/or how the HD image is achieved will have changed for the better, hence, rendering the FX1 and like cameras "outdated." Jay www.gooddogproductions.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Adam Valuckas Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 I'm still making money with my XL1s in local commercial work and side projects, the way i see it is- if i really need it i can rent it.... Xl3HDV does sound really neat..... MAKE IT DAMN IT!! stupid Canon mumble mumble. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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