Help me for my first attempt at filmmaking

[Berker Taşkıran]

Hi. I just joined in, glad to see such a place exists.

 

I'm 24, started studying cinema this year, this may seem early but starting studyng has been one of the later stages for me, altough I don't have any live experience, I probably have learned more than I can learn in the future of my study so far. I still have a lot to learn -and learning everyday- technically but I believe I know what I want from the creative perspective. I have been writing down lots of ideas past few years, I planned one of my easier ideas as a starter point for my more ambitious ideas and I started turning it into a script a little while ago. I also have a friend (not studying cinema) who's working with me on this. He is similar to me, he has an eye for what's good and he can contribute to many parts of the process. After the script is complete we're planning to buy Panasonic Lumix GH4 for shooting it. I have some questions...

 

Let me explain the project first. Story will take place interior-only, a one-room cabin, with a bathroom probably. It is dialogue heavy and it is psychological drama. There are no very fast action like fights.

Runtime will probably be at least 30 minutes. We don't have a set length in our minds yet but 30 mins minimum is a safe deal. I want it to be as long as what's neccesary for the story. It can and probably will go above 30 mins, but won't most likely go below. We'll have a 1.5mins shooting for our cinematography final exams very soon and I'll have some experience from that. And we'll probably want to shoot at least one short film before the project or we'll at least have some experience with a camera to feel comfortable and try a few of the things we'd like to do before buying Lumix GH4 and doing more spendings.

There will be two characters. I don't plan on using sunlight, I don't want a recognizable day/night cycle. There will of course be a tripod, we also plan to make a homemade steadycam and various types of camera sliders (one regular, one angular at least). I don't like long shots very much but we'll still probably have at least one long shot (not a too long one), but I am a fan of shots with camera movement. There will be no handheld cam altough I also like them I don't want my movie to look amateurish.

I also like... "impossible" shots, I want shots that makes audience to think that how was that possible, e.g.: invisible cam against mirror, or scene through a mirror that's not recognizable at first, or camera movement that goes through walls, etc (this will either be made on post-production or we'll cut down some holes on walls -which will still be adjusted on post-production). I also want a surreal look at some parts, maybe a shot from ground, corner of the room and the ceiling is appearing as being pulled out from all 4 corners, this can also be done as a special effect but I'm not sure it it's better to do using a special (wide angle) lens.

I also like extreme close-up to deliver emotion and the psychological element. I do like zoom-out movement and camera lift movement (not sure it this is the correct term, what I have in mind is perfectly usable interior) on certain moments. We'll also most likely have a dolly-zoom use. We'll use a blue color filter for probably all of the movie. We'll also probably want to darken corners of the picture, I'm not sure if this one should be used entire movie.

 

Everything seemed perfect with Panasonic Lumix GH4 but when I looked into lenses it all turned upside down. Let me ask;

 

LENS RELATED QUESTIONS:

1) Are there lenses (that are MFT lenses), say 50mm, are affected by crop factor 2? Or are all or some of MFT lenses' crop factor on MFT body crop factor is 1? Or are there no lens on the planet that can give you the mm what is written on it on an MFT body? (Please add source(s) when replying to this one if you can, because I want to be 100% sure)

2) Say, I bought a 50mm MFT lens, can I buy an adapter/speedbooster for it to act as a 50mm lens and not 100mm lens or more? If so, can I use this adapter (same brand if neccesary) on different sized lenses? Is buying such a thing financially viable or is it the best solution in the beginning?

3) If 2 is possible, will f-stop value change, if so what will f-stop value be?

4) If 1 and 2 are impossible, what are the pricing on a 25mm MFT (say f/1.8 or whatever you like) lens vs. a 50mm FF f/1.8 or so? I have seen Nikon 50mm f/1.8 lenses that are 100$. I haven't seen a cheap MFT equivelent of this.

5) After answering all of the questions above, can you tell me how many lenses will we need? And what type (mm, f-stop, prime/zoom/wide angle) of lenses? And what are the exact brand/models you suggest for us (price/performance)? I thought we'd probably need at least 3, but the lenses topic is the most confusing part for me so far.

 

GENERAL QUESTIONS:

6) Are MFT cameras really best solution for low/no-budget filmmaking? Can you give me numbers for, say, "GH4+lenses" I need vs. "A7S+lenses I need"? One of the many reasons I chose GH4 is internal 4K recording. Even tough we'll probably convert it to 1080p and show it at 1080p everywhere unless 4K showing is possible, 4K offers better image quality even when downscaled to 1080p and it is more future-proof.

7) What f-stop should we go for? There will be lights, but it won't be a well-lit room in the story, is really low f-stops (say, below f/1.8) neccesary? Our budget is no/low-budget. I don't know what exactly the circumstances will be when we start shooting this but I don't want to compromise from the picture quality while not going over our heads.

8) What kind of people will we definitely need? Is lighting guy absolutely needed? Or a camera assistant? Our cinematography teacher in university mentioned this as a must but we are two people behind the camera despite we're inexperienced. What about sound assistant? Is there anything else that's a must? I assume make-up may be neccesary but I am not sure how exactly will the characters look like yet.

I believe I can do editing, post production with some research, my friend can also help with post production, maybe do some small special effects, about the music part: I want no scene without music (score) and sound effects but of course these will have to be license-free. I have a vast interest on instrumental music so I believe I can find some things we can use. We can also ask for some permissions for some known works and hope to get positive answer from at least a few of them. I also have some pieces of music in my head, I can probably find a friend who will help me extract it and put it into a decent form. It may even be possible to find someone to do soundtrack but I don't know how viable this can be. I can find lighting and maybe some more stuff we can use from friends but I don't know for how long they can allow us to use. Since the script isn't complete, I haven't pursued this yet. But there are a few people willing for it. In fact if I can turn this into reality during my school years I believe I can find more help than I can think of. It is an ambitious project after all, despite the fact that it's my least ambitious idea.

9) What aspect ratio do you suggest for this? I am trying to choose between 16:9 or 2.35:1. 16:9 seems more natural for the story but 2.35:1 can show that we're serious business and it can feel like a "film" more easier. Does GH4 have a 2.35:1 AR recording option at all?

11) How much can all of this cost (only exclude actors fee from this).

 

 

Any and every other insightful opinions/recommendations are much appreciated. Thanks for reading.

Edited December 7, 2014 by Berker Taşkıran

[Freya Black]

Okay the focal length written on the lens is the focal length of the lens.

It isn't the focal length of the lens that changes when you put the lens on different cameras but the size of the sensor.

The size of the sensor affects the way that the camera sees through the glass.

The speed booster is a special device which can change the way the sensor sees through the glass as it is basically more optics (something called a focal reducer). It allows the small sensor in the GH4 to use more of the glass in the lens.

 

I'm not sure what kind of camera you are thinking of as being a normal camera but lets assume that you are thinking of a stills camera (which is where the idea of crop factors comes from) like a Canon 5D which has a full frame sensor the size of a negative on a 35mm stills camera. If you put a 50mm M4/3 lens on the 5D then your field of view will be the same as that from any other 50mm lens on the 5D. (You might get vignetting however because the lens may not have been designed to cover such a large sensor) Also if you put a normal stills 50mm lens on a GH4 then the small sensor will still crop the field of view.

 

Basically it isn't due to the lenses but due to the size of the sensor.

 

Freya

[Freya Black]

As to 9, if you think that 16:9 suits the movie best then shoot in that aspect ratio. Don't worry about ideas of what is "cinematic" as that changes all the time anyway. In fact 16:9 was created to be close to the 1.85:1 aspect ratio used for widescreen films in cinemas!

 

Freya

[Freya Black]

Good luck with your project. I would try not to overthink it all too much. Just do the best you can do and if something is going to be difficult enough to stop you doing your project then find a simpler way of doing things. It's more important to get things done and to learn from the experience of doing it, than to let things be obstacles that stop you from making things work.

 

Freya

[joshua gallegos]

One of the major issues with my very first short film was that I wanted to know every specific technical detail, and when I finally ended up shooting it, I felt like I had no brain at all. Don't overthink! Just concentrate on the story you want to tell, if you don't do that, the story will get away from you. Work closely with your actors, once you know the scene you will know where to put the camera. I'm currently developing my second short film, and I learned A LOT by my mistakes. Mistakes that I will never repeat again. Make sure you have a script supervisor who can help with continuity, the more people who specialize in their own thing (sound, make-up, art decorator, etc) the better. Don't try to do everything yourself unless you really have to. Other than that, have fun and take your time to perfect your vision. I will not wish you "good luck", luck is for losers. You get what you put into it, that is a universal truth.

[David Mullen ASC]

1) Are there lenses (that are MFT lenses), say 50mm, are affected by crop factor 2? Or are all or some of MFT lenses' crop factor on MFT body crop factor is 1? Or are there no lens on the planet that can give you the mm what is written on it on an MFT body? (Please add source(s) when replying to this one if you can, because I want to be 100% sure)

 

These questions always drive me a bit nuts. If a lens is labeled a 50mm, it's always a 50mm. A 50mm lens on a MFT camera remains a 50mm lens, and it remains a 50mm lens on a Super-8 camera, an IMAX camera, on any camera - because 50mm is a measurement of its physical focal length. If it had been labeled "2 inches" would you expect it to shrink to 1" when it was put on a different camera?

 

What changes when you put that 50mm lens on different cameras is the field of view due to the cropping of the sensor.

 

If a 50mm lens on an MFT camera has a too tight a view, then put a shorter focal length on the camera, there's nothing magical about the number 50! It sounds like your issue is that you are looking at cheaper used lenses made for Full-Frame 35mm cameras and can't find the shorter focal length range you need for MFT at the same prices, because 50mm was always the cheapest lens made for FF35 cameras.

 

The other odd thing is how everyone seems to want to convert everything to the field of view of a Full-Frame 35mm camera as if that's the only field of view they are used to, when most people don't regularly shoot Full-Frame 35mm nor VistaVision for movies. I've spent the past twenty years shooting regular 35mm cine / Super-35, which is similar to APS-C in a digital camera, so I'm used to what view a 50mm gives me on those cameras. And when I shot 16mm, I used focal lengths that were on average half of what I'd use in regular 35mm cine.

 

Yes, there is an adaptor that changes the effective speed and field of view for FF35 lenses put onto a MFT camera, by Metabones:

http://www.metabones.com/products/details/MB_SPEF-m43-BM1

 

But it only increases the field of view by .7X, not 2X, and the speed by one stop. But that sounds pretty good, your 50mm becomes essentially a 35mm in terms of field of view.

[Berker Taşkıran]

You're right. But what would you do? Would you buy 50mm lens for a MFT body to have the same look of 50mm FF body?

 

Are you suggesting that I should buy a 50mm lens if I want a 50mm lens no matter the body? I've seen people are suggesting 25mm lens for 50mm FF equivelent.

 

And if half the size of the look I want is what should I buy then comes the price issue. If average prices of 25mm lenses are more expensive than 50mm (which seems so) then I start to question my choice of camera.

 

I may be ignorant of the essentials of the topic. Is there a video on YouTube you can direct me to understand the concept of the crop factor and related terms? I have read a lot about crop factor and I still am confused and haven't found a solution to my "problem". Excuse my ignorance.

[David Mullen ASC]

No, I'm saying that there's nothing magical about the number 50. You buy the lens that gives you the field of view you need for your camera. If you need the view of a 50mm lens on a FF35 camera, you put a 25mm lens on an MFT camera. The fact that a 25mm lens is more expensive than a 50mm lens is another issue entirely.

 

I'm not sure what's confusing about crop factors, it very basic math.

 

If you project the circular image from a 50mm lens onto a rectangular sensor, first of all, it's obviously going to crop that circle into a rectangle, correct? But other than that, how much it crops that image will affect its field of view, crop more and your image will be narrower in view.

 

So here's the basic thing you have to understand about crop factors: if you then put that lens, lets say it's a 50mm, onto a camera with a sensor that is half was wide as before, your horizontal view is cropped in half, correct? So you would have to use a focal length that is half as long, a 25mm instead of a 50mm, to double the view to compensate for cropping the projected lens image in half.

 

That's it.

 

So to understand crop factors, you just have to know the physical dimension of the sensor and the focal length of the lens. MFT sensors are 18mm wide, and a FF35 sensor (or standard 8-perf 35mm horizontal still camera frame) is 36mm wide, hence the 2X difference in width and the 2X crop factor if comparing the horizontal view. That makes it pretty easy if you want to compare everything to FF35. However, if you are mainly used to shooting on 35mm movie cameras, you'd start with the figure of 24mm for the width of the sensor or film frame, which is a 1.3X difference between that and MFT (divide 24 by 18, get 1.3). So in that case, a 37.5mm on a Super-35 movie camera would give you the same view as 50mm on a FF35 camera.

 

Some people compare the diagonal view but the trouble with that is that the aspect ratio of the sensor affects the length of the diagonal, so comparing between two cameras requires that you are comparing the same aspect ratio. I find it easier just to compare the field of view in one direction, horizontally usually, because that's how most of us work on a set, we are mainly concerned with horizontal view.

 

Mitch Gross did a video about this:

http://blog.abelcine.com/2010/05/14/a-lens-is-a-lens-is-a-lens/

[Freya Black]

You're right. But what would you do? Would you buy 50mm lens for a MFT body to have the same look of 50mm FF body?

 

Are you suggesting that I should buy a 50mm lens if I want a 50mm lens no matter the body? I've seen people are suggesting 25mm lens for 50mm FF equivelent.

 

Are you trying to achieve the look of a 50mm lens on a FF stills camera?

This is the big question. Without knowing what is normal for you and what you are trying to achieve it's difficult to make any kind of suggestion.

 

If you are used to shooting in 16mm film then a 50mm lens would be a bit telephoto and might be handy for shooting close ups.

If you are used to shooting full frame stills formats then 50mm might be more like a "normal" lens in that format.

If you are used to shooting 35mm movie film then something like 35mm might be more like your "normal" lens and 75mm would be handy for close up work.

 

It all depends a bit on what you are used to working with.

It depends a lot on what you are trying to achieve too, like what kind of shots are you thinking you might need to do?

 

The focal lengths remain the same when the lens is used on another body but on a GH4 a 50mm lens will be more telephoto than it will be on a Canon 5D. It will still be a 50mm lens however.

 

Freya

Edited December 7, 2014 by Freya Black

[Berker Taşkıran]

@David Mullen ASC,

 

Thanks for explanation.

 

I know 50mm isn't a magical number and I haven't even decided what type of lens I want but it's generally a suggested focal lenght for filming, along with 35mm.

 

Can I ask why MFT lenses are called MFT lenses? Are you positive that all MFT lenses in the world would have a crop factor of 2x when put on a MFT camera? I have seen other people asking the same question, that if it would have 1x crop factor. So that's why I doubt. If we get this out of the way then I'll be sure to think based on 2x crop factor indefinitely.

 

Just making sure, adapters can't have effect on crop factor, right? Moving onto speedboosters, do you think buying lenses with a speedbooster according to 1.3-1.4 crop factor for FF equivelent is better than buying a lens without a speedbooster according to 2 crop factor compared in price/performance aspect? I do know speedbooster drops f-stop one level but I am not sure about the price when all lenses are taken into consideration.

 

 

@Freya,

 

I am not familiar with any of them. The only reason I am interested in 50mm and 35mm (which is 25mm and 17-18mm for MFT) is that people are saying those are the lenses most often used in filmmaking. Unless there is such a thing as 1x crop factor for MFT.

 

I already asked which lenses should I buy so I am open to anything. My only goal is to get the image I described in the OP I want for the story. I don't know what I need to shoot them so that's why I'm confused.

 

After knowing what type of lenses I need and what are their prices I can decide whether to go for MFT or FF.

 

I hope this is clear enough.

Edited December 7, 2014 by Berker Taşkıran

[Freya Black]

@Freya,

 

I am not familiar with any of them. The only reason I am interested in 50mm and 35mm (which is 25mm and 17-18mm for MFT) is that people are saying those are the lenses most often used in filmmaking. Unless there is such a thing as 1x crop factor for MFT.

 

I already asked which lenses should I buy so I am open to anything. My only goal is to get the image I described in the OP I want for the story. I don't know what I need to shoot them so that's why I'm confused.

 

After knowing what type of lenses I need and what are their prices I can decide whether to go for MFT or FF.

 

I hope this is clear enough.

 

That's actually a lot clearer. In fact you can probably just forget about crop factor altogether for the time being if you aren't used to working with stills cameras. I'm not used to stills cameras and I tend to just forget about the whole crop factor thing.

 

As has come up already, if you are going to pick up cheap second hand vinatge stills lenses or something then the common focal lengths and thus the cheapest will tend to be 35, 50 and 135mm. Actually with Canon FD lenses the 28mm lens tends to be more common and thus cheaper than the 35. Canon FD lenses could be worth looking at because they can work with an adaptor to Micro 4/3 lenses and they are availble very cheaply. You can easily find 24mm, 28mm, 35mm , 50mm, 100mm and 135mm lenses very cheaply. There is even a Canon FD speed booster. They are really nice lenses but some people complain that they are too soft. This depends on your tastes I guess!

 

Another low budget option might be Olympus OM lenses, they are not as easily available but there is a speed booster available for Olympus OM too.

 

On the face of it something like a 135mm lens is not going to be all that useful on a GH4 because it will be so telephoto without a speed booster. The thing is however that the 135mm lenses are so cheap and common that it's worth getting one just for that moment when you want to shoot some far off birds or something. It might be just about usable for some things with a speed booster however.

 

If you were shooting on 35mm movie film then a normal set of lenses might be something like a 18mm, 25mm, 35mm, 50mm and 75mm.

 

Here are the focal lengths for a complete set of Cooke S4 lenses:

 

18mm, 21mm, 25mm, 32mm, 40mm, 50mm, 65mm, 75mm ,100mm, 135mm

You won't be able to afford Cooke S4's but they are a standard kind of movie industry lens. :)

The more important lenses in that set from my point of view would be the 18mm, 25mm, 32mm, and 75mm. I might even choose to get by without the 18mm but there is a certain extent where it comes down to your tastes!

The lenses on my own 35mm camera are 18mm, 28mm, 35mm, 50mm, 75mm and 135mm.

Freya

[Freya Black]

So assuming you were to go with vintage lenses and a speed booster then a cheap set might be 24mm, 28mm, 35mm, 50mm, 135mm.

 

To be honest I used to shoot with focal lengths similar to that on 16mm film so you could even use those kind of lenses to shoot without a speed booster! :)

 

Freya

[Berker Taşkıran]

Based on my description of the project;

 

Do you recommend zoom lenses? I know primes are sharper but it might be useful. Most recommend to have at least one zoom lens. How about two?

 

For interior-only (at least for this project) how much should largest lens be? Are 18mm and 25mm enough for interior? Will I need 35mm or above? I plan some extreme close-ups for both characters and some objects but I'm not sure how it will all work out as the script isn't complete yet.

 

How about a 18mm, 25mm and a 12-35mm?

 

There will absolutely be lighting by the way, but all of the scenes will have to look low on light on the screen. Unless lighting becomes a problem to achieve this. Based on this what kind of f-stop should I aim for?

 

Vintage lenses are one of the topics I had in mind but I never looked for it because there was so much else to work out. Seems like a good idea but will it have better IQ than a brand new zoom lens?

 

And is GH4 really the best choice for this price range including lens costs?

 

Any idea what kind of crew will I definitely need and what will the cost be for whole project? Anything else on any topic that can guide me is appreciated.

[Matthew Padraic Barr]

 

I also like... "impossible" shots, I want shots that makes audience to think that how was that possible, e.g.: invisible cam against mirror, or scene through a mirror that's not recognizable at first, or camera movement that goes through walls, etc (this will either be made on post-production or we'll cut down some holes on walls -which will still be adjusted on post-production). I also want a surreal look at some parts, maybe a shot from ground, corner of the room and the ceiling is appearing as being pulled out from all 4 corners, this can also be done as a special effect but I'm not sure it it's better to do using a special (wide angle) lens.

 

 

Since this is your first endeavor in filmmaking, I wouldn't recommend trying too many -- if any at all -- of these "impossible shots."

When you see these types of shots in modern films, they are most often shot using a remote crane which allows for the intricate patterns of movement to be exactly replicated without as much of a human error factor. These remote cranes are extremely expensive.

 

Mirror work is also very difficult because you can't hide lights or sound equipment nearly as easily.

 

I also would be careful about relying on too much post-production on these types of shots, or at least test them out extensively before hand to make sure you have the technology that will allow for those shots to be executed properly. If you don't have someone experienced in post-production, these shots will be literally impossible.

 

It's difficult enough planning the lighting, blocking, camera movement, camera angles, sound etc. on a simple dialogue scene so I would focus on simple shots.

[John E Clark]

Everything seemed perfect with Panasonic Lumix GH4 but when I looked into lenses it all turned upside down. Let me ask;

 

LENS RELATED QUESTIONS:

1) Are there lenses (that are MFT lenses), say 50mm, are affected by crop factor 2? Or are all or some of MFT lenses' crop factor on MFT body crop factor is 1? Or are there no lens on the planet that can give you the mm what is written on it on an MFT body? (Please add source(s) when replying to this one if you can, because I want to be 100% sure)

2) Say, I bought a 50mm MFT lens, can I buy an adapter/speedbooster for it to act as a 50mm lens and not 100mm lens or more? If so, can I use this adapter (same brand if neccesary) on different sized lenses? Is buying such a thing financially viable or is it the best solution in the beginning?

3) If 2 is possible, will f-stop value change, if so what will f-stop value be?

4) If 1 and 2 are impossible, what are the pricing on a 25mm MFT (say f/1.8 or whatever you like) lens vs. a 50mm FF f/1.8 or so? I have seen Nikon 50mm f/1.8 lenses that are 100$. I haven't seen a cheap MFT equivelent of this.

5) After answering all of the questions above, can you tell me how many lenses will we need? And what type (mm, f-stop, prime/zoom/wide angle) of lenses? And what are the exact brand/models you suggest for us (price/performance)? I thought we'd probably need at least 3, but the lenses topic is the most confusing part for me so far.

 

The GH series 'normal' lense is about 25mm. That yields a 40 deg Angle of View. A 50mm lens will be about 2x that, so will have a mild telephoto effect. A 12mm is about half that, and will give a 'wide angle' effect.

 

I use the Lumix 14-140mm zoom which was part of my GH1 kit, and for most situations, as a 'zoom' goes it works... however it is slow-ish...

 

I also use the 14-140mm on my Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera, aka BMPCC, and at 14mm it is slightly larger than the 40 deg Angle of View, whereas a 17mm is closer to that.

 

I would suggest the following iPhone app that will allow you to find the various lens parameters for a variety of cameras and sensor sizes/aspect ratios.

 

http://www.davideubank.com/Good_Focus/pCAM_FILM_+_DIGITAL_PRO.html

[Berker Taşkıran]

Thanks to everyone I haven't replied so far, the only reason I haven't replied is I am filled with overwhelming questions and I need experience for some of them. I am reading and re-reading everything, nothing goes to waste.

 

 

Quoting from some other forum;

And just look at lenses:

- FF 50mm/1.8 is 10x cheaper than Voigtlander 25mm/0.95..

- FF different primes from 20/1.8 to 100/1.8 are sooo cheap (m43 equiv. 10/1 to 50/1) compared to many even weaker m43 lenses.

I can buy a nice zebra Zeiss Jena Tessar 2.8/50 for 10 quid off ebay.

I can buy (indeed I own) a 1.4/24mm Nikon G for 1400 quid...

 

I can't see a way to decide between MFT and FF. :(

[John E Clark]

Thanks to everyone I haven't replied so far, the only reason I haven't replied is I am filled with overwhelming questions and I need experience for some of them. I am reading and re-reading everything, nothing goes to waste.

 

 

Quoting from some other forum;

 

I can't see a way to decide between MFT and FF. :(

 

I personally didn't mind going with the MFT Lumix GH-1. Having a FullFrame 35mm still format did not enter into either my mind nor my evaulation.

 

What did factor in most was 'price'... at the time a GH-1 + 14-140 zoom 'Kit' was $1395 USD, whereas most everything else was more than that just for the camera body alone.

 

In addition, one factor was that for the MFT I could buy a 'dumb' adapter to use my Nikon 'manual' lenses (or if automatic, at least had manual control of the f-stop as an option).

 

The GH series can with an adatper support Nikon, Canon and PL mount lenses.

 

The Blackmagic Pocket camera that I recently bought has the MFT mount, so my GH-1 lens and my Nikon adapter works with that as well.

Edited December 8, 2014 by John E Clark

[David Mullen ASC]

I can't see a way to decide between MFT and FF. :(

 

You mean between an MFT or Full-Frame camera or between MFT or Full-Frame lenses on an MFT camera?

 

The main advantage to the MFT lenses is that they are smaller and all the electronics work, but those points are more of a factor if you also want to take still photographs with them.

 

One advantage to FF35 lenses is that being bigger, they are easier to pull focus on if you find a more manual-style lens -- many MFT lenses don't have external f-stop rings nor distance marks because they are designed to work for still shooting in auto mode. Plus it actually costs more to make a manual lens than an electronically controlled one. But then the problem with FF35 lenses is that it's hard to find affordable ones that are shorter than 24mm in focal length. So you may consider getting a mix between FF35 lenses and MFT lenses. The main thing is to figure out if you are going to attach some sort of plates, bracketry, rods to the camera and geared rings to the lenses to allow a follow-focus knob.

 

But in terms of an MFT camera versus a FF35 one, that's more of an issue of sensitivity and depth of field characteristics.

[Berker Taşkıran]

How about an example?

Option 1:

Panasonic GH4 (Body only) = $1500
Panasonic LEICA D SUMMILUX 25mm f/1.4 = $500
Olympus M.Zuiko 17mm f1.8 = $500

Total = $2500

Option 2:

Sony A7S (Body only) = $1300
Nikon 50mm f/1.8D = $170
Nikon 35mm f/1.8G = $170

Total = $1640


It seems like those Nikon lenses can be used on A7S with adapters. And Panasonic and Olympus can't even match its f-stop. Not sure about the quality of lenses but I can't see them justifying the price. Or can they? The gap would open even more the more lenses are added. Am I in some terrible wrong here or are MFT solutions really, REALLY stupid?

Oh and are speedboosters really 100$ on e-bay? How can they be so cheap when brand new ones are 600$, this is just a wonder really, even speedboosters can't justify above, unless there's something else.

Also, I was meaning to ask, GH4 has a crop value of 2.3 when in recording. Is this only vertical? (Not sure if I phrased it correctly) If they have the same horizontal view I'm fine with it --which I assume should go even higher if a 2.35:1 recording is possible-- but if not, it is another huge problem.

[Michael LaVoie]

Just to throw out a new option you may not have considered, The Sony RX10. Normally a fixed lens camera is off the table in my opinion but it's got a really nice Zeiss 24-200 T2.8 constant. I used it for a really quick guerilla book trailer. But I was amazed at how awesome and quickly we could move w it. No xtra lenses etc. Shots looked great. No S-log but the image is pretty sweet considering the price tag. You'll save enough to buy a mattebox, tripod an monitor.

[Berker Taşkıran]

Oh, crap. A7S is actually 2500$, 1300$ was A7. :( Oh well, it still doesn't change much. I mean it does but I don't think I can give up on an FF body now. I'll wait or over-expend if I have to. I feel like I have progressed a lot since I created this topic and have looked at some guides and short films (not that I haven't seen any short films before), I feel like I can do a lot at the moment but I don't know when will I and rest of the conditions (one of the most important part is of course the location) be ready and when will my friend be available.

 

***

@Michael, thanks for your input.

 

I was thinking about zoom lenses yesterday, I was searching if I could find a fast enough lens for cheap. Something like an f/2.8 seemed compelling (since I will PROBABLY love the practicality) but then I remembered the existence of f/1.8 lenses and lower, on FF, for super cheap. Still unsure about quality of those but stil...

 

This is the first time I'm hearing "fixed lens camera", that's a decent lens (if the camera is FF, which seems so) but not being able to go lower than f/2.8 is a big problem for me, as I suspect you will agree. It's at least a better solution than buying an APS-C with crappy lenses. I can consider it if I get desperate and feel like nothing is possible. :D

 

***

 

The most confusing part is over for me, I am now much more comfortable with lenses. Except their practical qualities. But those aren't confusing. Now the only thing is to find a camera for my needs and buy whenever I can (which is a mystery).

 

I am now looking for some fun DIY stuff along with a camera, I may start doing some things since they're cheap and I can always make use of them. And maybe I may get my hands on a camera if a magic happens and I'll have some stuff done already. I need to do something, anything, or I will implode to a black hole. :wacko: :lol: I am even considering shooting with my phone. As Matthew McCanoughey (If true) says with his magical voice: "You want to be a writer? Start writing. You want to be a filmmaker? Start shooting stuff on your phone right now."

 

***

 

I just read this: "Don't sell the sigma!!! You can still use it in the a7s crop mode.. It will perform gloriously!" here. He is talking about "Sigma 18-35mm f1.8", which is 1000$ way over my league. What I don't understand is why it can work in crop mode? I do know A7S have a APS-C mode. Will the same thing happen If I try to use <200$ Nikon/Canon lenses? What lenses can I actually use on A7S at FF? What are the cheapest (<500$) good quality lenses I can use? An example can be a 50mm.

[Berker Taşkıran]

I can't edit my post above:

 

I see RX10's sensor is 1". 2.7 crop factor would make the lens 65-540mm f/7.5. I see no point.

 

***

 

I have a feeling I will also be disappointed by A7S compatible decent lens prices but let's see what you have to say.

[David Mullen ASC]

You can use FF35 lenses on the Sony A7S. There are ways to research online which lenses were made for APS-C and which were made for FF35. With Nikon, APS-C lenses are labeled DX and FF35 lenses are labeled FX. Old pre-digital camera Nikon lenses are all FF35 generally.

 

What is your budget for the camera and what is the budget for your lenses?

[Berker Taşkıran]

But how can they change when used on FF? FF doesn't have a crop factor. Is it because the only way to use them on FF is to get APS-C adapter so that with that adapter installed FF camera turns into APS-C?

Or is there something else?

 

So those 170$ lenses are good? I will get the promised specs? Are they on par with Panasonic/Olympus lenses quality?

 

I was thinking 1500$ for camera and maybe 1000$ for lenses. But nothing is certain. If there's no better alternative than A7S I can wait or reconsider GH4 but I want to stick to FF. Camera part is easier than lenses. I have no idea what will be the price for a decent lens and their summed up price.

[Berker Taşkıran]

Also, will I need AF? I didn't think so and there shouldn't be fast action but people are saying A7S is hard to focus and even harder when there's movement.