Influence of films on the realm of man...

[Jonathan Spear]

So just what does it mean to be human these days?

 

While I'm sitting here drinking my coffee and writing this post, US troops in Iraq are still fighting insurgents who are more than willing to commit suicide, homocide and genocide 'in the name of God', Africans are still starving and at least 3 African kids die every day of poverty and starvation, terrorism is back with a vengeance, Palestinians have declared a state of emergency, many of our own citizens are still homeless, unemployed, hungry and in desperate need of medical treatment, innocent men women and children are still being raped and murdered every single day around the world, drugs are all but gone and God has yet to show His face.

 

As calm as your life may seem at the moment, there are millions of people just like you and me out there that are suffering.

 

Here's my question:

 

After watching a 3 part documentary on Hitler on the history channel, Farenheit 9/11, Bowling for Columbine, excerpts from Leni Reifenstahl's Nazi propoganda films, Fritz the Cat, Baraka, Saving Private Ryan, Pink Floyd's 'the Wall' and tons of other thought provoking films and programs -- for the life of me, I can't think of a single reason why someone hasn't tried writing/shooting an educational film of sorts which every single human being on planet earth can relate to, one that would subconsciously promote notions of world peace, love and freedom?

 

Films can be SO powerful, thought provoking and many of them have been historically proven to alter the course of mankind.

Positive propoganda if you will...

 

Why does Hollywood waste hundreds of millions producing soulless hollywood fluff while the rest of the world -- people JUST LIKE ME AND YOU -- still live in poverty and anarchy? Why is Michael Moore the only guy out there these days who's really trying to make a difference?

 

Planet Earth is slowly dying away, people are starving and out of control, and the realm of man is sick and in desperate need of salvation. Why aren't we, the filmmakers, doing more to help our brothers and sisters?

 

When life as we know it finally comes to an end, what kind of legacy will filmmakers have left behind?

[Guest fstop]

for the life of me, I can't think of a single reason why someone hasn't tried writing/shooting an educational film of sorts which every single human being on planet earth can relate to, one that would subconsciously promote notions of world peace, love and freedom?

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

This reminds me of the scene in Gremlins 2 where The Clamp Cable Network airs it's doomsday broadcast, accompanied by images of the American flag, random forest animals and blue skied natural environments:

"Because of the end of civilization, the Clamp Cable Network now leaves the air. We hope you've enjoyed our programming, but more importantly, we hope you've enjoyed... life."

[David Mullen ASC]

Motion pictures being a commercial art, it would be hard to get audiences to see socially-conscientious movies. They ARE made -- "Hotel Rwanda" recently, for example -- but it's not necessarily something audiences are clamouring to see compared to these big, dumb comic-book movies.

 

I recall Kubrick once asking if anyone's mind was ever changed by a work of art.

 

Besides, propaganda generally makes bad art.

 

If you really want to change the world for the better, go into politics, not the film industry. I think artists would be better off reminding people of our shared humanity in a non-preachy way.

 

Kurosawa's "Red Beard" for example, has an interesting theme of "good begets good", one character being redeemed and then improving the life of another character, who in turn, tries to held another.

 

Ichikawa's "The Burmese Harp" is another powerful humanist statement about brotherhood and compassion during war. Oddly enough, he then made another WW2 movie called "Fires on the Plain" one of the bleakest views of humanity ever made.

 

If you want to bring people together, you just have to watch making the equivalent of "I'd like to give the world a Coke" commercial...

[Tim J Durham]

So just what does it mean to be human these days?

 

While I'm sitting here drinking my coffee and writing this post, US troops in Iraq are still fighting insurgents who are more than willing to commit suicide, homocide and genocide 'in the name of God', Africans are still starving and at least 3 African kids die every day of poverty and starvation, terrorism is back with a vengeance, Palestinians have declared a state of emergency, many of our own citizens are still homeless, unemployed, hungry and in desperate need of medical treatment, innocent men women and children are still being raped and murdered every single day around the world, drugs are all but gone and God has yet to show His face.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This reminds me of the scene from Hannah and Her Sisters where Max von Sydow says, "If God (may have said, "Jesus") ever DID come back and see what was being carried on in His name, he'd never stop throwing up".

 

As for making the all-encompassing feel-good movie for all time; when you finish the script, I'd love to be a part of it. Call me.

 

In the meantime, you have to settle for less ambitious titles such as, "Mindwalk" and "The Big Bang" which, inspite of their good intentions, leave you somewhat wanting.

[Gordon Highland]

That's a tricky one. Every film, transparent as it may be to many, has an agenda. Even Michael Moore (ok, especially Michael Moore) who I tend to agree with on many things philosophically, is going to rub many people the wrong way. I think you have an obligation as an artist to pass judgment or take a point of view in some way through your work.

 

One of the most positively-impactful films I've seen was "What the (Bleep) Do We Know?" Yet, even with that, someone will disagree, whether it's belittling their religious beliefs, or presented in a language that's over their head. Oh yeah, and we'd have to get our film translated into every language on the planet. Although I think you could do it better with powerful music and visuals alone.

 

As stated, film, if you want mass consumption, is a commercial medium. To get that kind of large distribution usually requires compromise according to the wishes of those who have the means to do it. Western folks don't respond as well to microtonal music of the East. What nationality is the lead subject (we have to "see" through someone's eyes)? Are people who have money portrayed as bad because they don't share as much as they could? What about peoples' occupations and how they might conflict with their ability to create peace? What makes a good or acceptable relationship? Is creating guilt or fear about your actions an effective way to change them? Do we have to go to a theater to see it? All of these things, and hundreds more, will limit the appeal.

 

I say, create art to the best of your abilities that reflects your views, get it in front of as many people as you can with reasonable compromise, and pray (or not) for the best. Oh, and work your butt off on paying jobs first so you can afford to make it. :rolleyes:

[Mike Lary]

Hollywood makes money by entertaining people. They aren't going to break a successful business model and take the money WE give them for 'fluff' and spend it producing films that address the horrors of the world. That just doesn't make sense.

 

However, we have the opportunity to spend our money elsewhere. For instance, $8.50 would feed a kid in Africa for a week and a half. If every American who complained about cliche, formulaic Hollywood films took their movie money and spent it on starving children instead, we'd probably start seeing big budget films about young, pretty people who find true romance while bathing lepers and feeding the homeless.

 

As far as film being powerful enough to change the world is concerned, I'll let the man comment on that:

 

"The world will not change unless we steadily change human nature itself and our very way of thinking. We have to exorcise the essential evil in human nature, rather than presenting concrete solutions to problems or directly depicting social problems." - Akira Kurosawa

[Jonathan Spear]

"""As stated, film, if you want mass consumption, is a commercial medium. To get that kind of large distribution usually requires compromise according to the wishes of those who have the means to do it."""

 

- What nationality is the lead subject (we have to "see" through someone's eyes)?

 

No nationalities. That's the point. Imagine a documentary on a species of animal - only human in this case. An idea could be to tell the story from the POV of an alien race studying and documenting our evolution since day one. They'd be "judging us", so to speak.

 

- Are people who have money portrayed as bad because they don't share as much as they could?

 

Not at all.

Well.. maybe a little.

Question is if money is really necessary in the first place?

 

- What about peoples' occupations and how they might conflict with their ability to create peace?

 

Unless you're a suicide bomber a Nazi or a republican I don't see a problem.

 

- What makes a good or acceptable relationship?

 

Most "Good" relationships promote and advance Life in a positive way.

 

- Is creating guilt or fear about your actions an effective way to change them?

 

Absolutely. If that's what it takes..

Besides, eventually guilt and fear fade away and you're left with a lesson well learned.

 

- Do we have to go to a theater to see it? All of these things, and hundreds more, will limit the appeal.

 

Bibles still sell like hotcakes.

[Guest Christopher Wedding]

Here's a little something I wrote when I started in LA as a PA.

 

 

CONTEMPORARY FATE

 

I?m aching from back-breaking Hollywood handshaking

Making all the words come out right

In smooth sentences of articulate delight

With words filled like pills with little white lies and swallowed pride

To be fed to the sharks that smile really wide.

 

So here?s some advice for the little fish fighting the tide

You gotta take it all in stride, smile, and enjoy the ride.

And if you want your slice of the Hollywood prize

You can?t be shy to get inside

You gotta decide to roll the dice, pay the price, and

Follow the mice all the way to the Piper.

 

Now I say if New York is the city that never sleeps

Then Los Angeles is the city that never eats.

The hunger here consumes us all and drives us mad with excitement

For new dawns and new days and new possible ways to play games

To find our names on silver screens of fame.

 

Here the Dreams and Ambitions are as numerous as the trees? palms or the sun?s rays

And shine bright like stars in the eyes of the great and up-and-coming.

 

But wait! What are we coming to?

 

Now when you arrive in LA there?s a few who choose to do whatever it takes

To make it or break in,

And the rest just eats crumbs of cake the shake from the pockets of the recognizable faces they chase

Or the names they hang on to drop at the next Hollywood cocktail party

Where the Reality TV instant celebrities drink up with the real A?s and B?s

And you can see girls turn on tinsel town tables

Lost, but ambitious, Still able and hoping to smile for the cameras

Their legs open to the highest bidders

For men with holes in their souls, demographic polls, and greedy goals

Their intentions as naked as the porn stars next door

Their eyes wide and estimating your wallet size

And when will we realize that this Social Pop Culture is just a disguise

For the guys laughing all the way to the bank with our:

Money, money, money, money, money,

MONEY.

 

You see Los Angeles is the city of an-gles

And here there are no halos

Just pay loads for those who don?t say no

And go on talk shows that host those that boost their egos and plug their good shows they put on for the lights, camera, action and the fraction at the top of the big studio lots

Where they call the shots like well paid robots

And it?s an ugly picture if you connect all the dots with the thought that we might have forgot to stop this madness before it all began.

 

Now we have our heads in the sand, the remote in our hand,

And we?re channel flipping the land of TV consumerism quicksand

And man, ain?t it grand!

The entertainment meant to chain you in, drain your brain, and make you grin

And you should see your face as they erase all trace of creativity or thoughts of other choice

When they subdue you voice, and glaze your eyes to advertise to materialize to capitalize

As they take you for a ride on the commercialism highway hypnotized.

Because by the way we?re living in a Mad Zoo World where we are not the keepers but the kept

And have you slept in pillowed lumber contemplating your puppet strings?

Have you listened to your TVs? Have you heard the sirens sing?

 

It?s a well oiled machine that gleans on every bright white smile of every cover girl for magazine miles

And all the while we pay them to sell us what style is

The tell us piles of secret sex files and whats hot, what?s not in the buzz of the biz.

And it?s not supposed to be like this!

Yet we?re convinced it?s sink or swim in a dog eat dog world where we have to fit in.

 

But I say STAND OUT.

Stand up and shout amongst the crowds

Speak your mind and scream it loud

In whatever words you choose to use

That refuse to lose your freedom day by day.

Don?t let it drip away in such a way that decays all the ways that this world could be great.

 

We have to take control.

I?m calling on all the luminaries, the visionaries

To help me carry this message to more people like me and you

Who might share our point of view and want to free the world?s minds

From this blinding, merciless, greedy, mass cultured state.

And if you can hear me and you haven?t escaped

The answer is so easy: You just have to create.

Because at the heart of art is when you start to believe in yourself.

So let?s get started and change this contemporary fate.

For change takes but an instant and a change for the better is never to late.

[Tim J Durham]

Here's a little something I wrote when I started in LA as a PA. 

CONTEMPORARY FATE

 

 

But I say STAND OUT.

Stand up and shout amongst the crowds

Speak your mind and scream it loud

In whatever words you choose to use

That refuse to lose your freedom day by day.

Don?t let it drip away in such a way that decays all the ways that this world could be great.

 

We have to take control.

I?m calling on all the luminaries, the visionaries

To help me carry this message to more people like me and you

Who might share our point of view and want to free the world?s minds

From this blinding, merciless, greedy, mass cultured state.

And if you can hear me and you haven?t escaped

The answer is so easy: You just have to create.

Because at the heart of art is when you start to believe in yourself.

So let?s get started and change this contemporary fate.

For change takes but an instant and a change for the better is never to late.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey, be careful there. You remember what happened to Jerry Maguire after HE published a manifesto... :blink:

[Jonathan Spear]

"""As for making the all-encompassing feel-good movie for all time; when you finish the script, I'd love to be a part of it. Call me."""

 

:o

 

:angry:

 

:unsure:

 

:rolleyes:

 

:)

 

I wouldn't know where to begin...

[Jonathan Spear]

"""This reminds me of the scene from Hannah and Her Sisters where Max von Sydow says, "If God (may have said, "Jesus") ever DID come back and see what was being carried on in His name, he'd never stop throwing up"."""

 

"""...(may have said, "Jesus")..."""

 

Problem #1.

 

He certainly didn't say Allah, Shiva or Zeus.

There are so many "Gods" out there these days. It seems like wherever you find poverty, closed ignorant communities, desperately bored and unimaginative people these "Gods" tend to flourish.

 

I wonder if our world would be a better (and happier) place to live in if people had the guts to deny the existence of a God and, God forbid, take responsiblity for their own actions...

[Matt Pacini]

"... While I'm sitting here drinking my coffee and writing this post, US troops in Iraq are still fighting insurgents who are more than willing to commit suicide, homocide and genocide 'in the name of God', Africans are still starving and at least 3 African kids die every day of poverty and starvation, terrorism is back with a vengeance, Palestinians have declared a state of emergency, many of our own citizens are still homeless, unemployed, hungry and in desperate need of medical treatment, innocent men women and children are still being raped and murdered every single day around the world, drugs are all but gone and God has yet to show His face.

As calm as your life may seem at the moment, there are millions of people just like you and me out there that are suffering..."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In other words, things are pretty much exactly like they've always been throughout history...

...with the exception that PART of the population of the earth is NOT starving, etc., which is an IMPROVEMENT in the human condition, not the opposite.

I'm certainly not suggesting that the "haves" never have exploited the "have-nots', but to assume that those who are NOT suffering are automatically by that act, CAUSING others to suffer, is like saying one horse finding a water hole is therefore directly responsible for all the horses that haven't found a water hole.

It's popular to blame Capitalism and western civilization as the cause for African starvation & civil war, for instance, but what's going on in Africa is what's gone on there for thousands of years.

The only difference is, we're prosperous, so there's something to contrast it to, which is not the same thing as CAUSING it. I'm not saying we can't help, but people are much more willing to help when they're not being told they're evil terrible people who have caused something that they haven't caused.

 

Why aren't we, the filmmakers, doing more to help our brothers and sisters?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

By "WE", I assume you mean... somebody else, as is evidenced by the fact that your post rails on "Hollywood" for not doing this.

Notice this post didn't start out with "hey everyone I AM MAKING A FILM THAT IS DOING MORE TO HELP OUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS!"

Sorry to be so cynical, but I just can't stand the hypocrisy of the new "whining class" of modern times.

 

It's so simple to have opinions, and then "send a message" by loudly proclaiming them, but like I'm always saying, complaining that "someone" doesn't feed that hungry homeless person on the corner doesn't feed them.

Buying them a sandwich does.

I don't whine about "somebody" feeding homeless people, but I do buy them sandwiches, and still I get accused of "not caring" because I don't have the right opinions, by people I know who have never lifted a finger for anyone... but they DO have all the "correct" opinions, so apparently that's what matters most these days.

If you think there needs to be more of these types of films, then make them.

 

MP

[Mike Lary]

I don't whine about "somebody" feeding homeless people, but I do buy them sandwiches, and still I get accused of "not caring" because I don't have the right opinions, by people I know who have never lifted a finger for anyone... but they DO have all the "correct" opinions, so apparently that's what matters most these days.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've been accused of being cheap and shallow because I sponsored a kid in Kenya for six years... <_< Apparently sponsorship is a way to 'detach yourself from the person you're helping', and cheap (because it's just the 'price of a cup of coffee'). I guess helping a starving family become healthy, more educated and self-sufficient IS pretty self-serving. After all, those thank-you letters I received will probably fetch a huge price at auction...

Edited July 19, 2005 by MikeL

[Matt Pacini]

I applaud you for actually doing something for these people.

I met a guy who went to Africa recently as part of the mission his church.

They're feeding these people, helping them on basic infrastructure, setting up food distribution, building housing, etc., for some of the poorest living conditions I've ever imagined (save a video on the work). There are huge orphaneges made up entirely of kids with AIDS whose parents have died of aids, so there was nobody left to take care of them. They're basically building towns for these people.

He said people here are constantly berating them, because they're also teaching Christianity, and because they're not handing out condoms (he said they're swimming in condoms over there already), so since they're not doing the "politically correct" things, and of course, because they're "evil Christians", that apparently negates all the good stuff that's being done.

MP

[Tim J Durham]

I wonder if our world would be a better (and happier) place to live in if people had the guts to deny the existence of a God and, God forbid, take responsiblity for their own actions...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

John Lennon thought so.

[Matt Pacini]

John Lennon was murdered by an atheist.

Brilliant songwriter, not so hot philosopher.

 

It's popular to blame religion, but here are a few statistics that counter that idea:

 

1. Approximate body-count from 200+ years of the Crusades = 30,000.

2. Approximate body-count from atheistic philosophies (Hitler, Stalin, Chairman Mao, Pol Pot, Castro) in the 20th century = 170 million.

 

No contest...

[Andy O'Neil]

I'm skeptical that the Crusades are the only religion-motivated tyranny in history. I think the Crusades have continued to this day.

 

Hitler, Stalin, Castro, etc. were clouded by a fog of divine entitlement even though they weren't Christian.

 

I don't blame religion or atheism. I blame greed, the craving of power.

 

I blame human nature.

 

Oh yeah, we're in a film forum. I love "The Thin Red Line". The cinematography's nice. :unsure:

[David Mullen ASC]

Blame people. Period. Religion, political ideology, etc. are just excuses for a lot of bad behavior.

 

This is why I can't understand why some people refuse to believe we evolved from lower animals when it's so painfully obvious in our behavior. There are days when I look about the city and think that we're all a bunch of clever, neurotic apes in fancy clothes only pretending to be human and occasionally our true nature breaks free.

[Jonathan Spear]

"""There are days when I look about the city and think that we're all a bunch of clever, neurotic apes in fancy clothes only pretending to be human and occasionally our true nature breaks free."""

 

I sometimes wonder if being "developed"/clever is an honor or a burden.

All in all, the rest of the animal kingdon seems quite peaceful, stable and harmonious most of the time. Animals have neither the time or the mental capacity to complain about life.

 

We humans, on the other hand, can stoop down to such levels of attrocities as... well... turn on CNN.

[Jonathan Spear]

...and then there's Mozart.

 

:)

[Matt Pacini]

Blame people. Period. Religion, political ideology, etc. are just excuses for a lot of bad behavior.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Agree 100%.

 

I think people blame religion for a couple reasons:

1. It's become part of our culture, just as 200 years ago everything was "the devils fault" or whatever. This is the new "devil".

 

2. When someone is religious and commits an obviously hideous act, it stands out because of hypocrisy.

 

MP

[David Mullen ASC]

Blaming religion (or Marx, Freud, Darwin, whatever) is a little like blaming the gun instead of guy pulling the trigger. It can be powerful tool or weapon, but that doesn't remove blame on the people wielding it destructively. If anything, Marx was probably closer to the truth in that economics (money) is usually at the root of most wars, even culture ones.

[Matt Pacini]

"...  All in all, the rest of the animal kingdon seems quite peaceful, stable and harmonious most of the time. .."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yeah, during those brief moments when they're not ripping other animals and each other apart for food, dominance, and just plain fun. (ever seen a cat "play" with a mouse? We call it torture when humans do things like that).

 

Notice if you will, that the act of sex among mammals in the animal kingdom is about almost 100% rape.

Non-human primates like gorillas & chimps regularly kill an cannibalize other's young, as do grizzly bears.

Don't even get me started on insects, which kill and eat anything, anytime.

 

I'd have to agree with David.

We're animals.

The brutal things humans do, are us acting like the animal kingdom.

When we're being peaceful, that's uniquely human, civilized behavior, which is just an artificial overlay we put over our true animal natures.

When animals are being peaceful, it just means they're not hungry at the moment.

 

Sorry, but this assertion that animals have morals, and humans do not, is just so much warm & fuzzy fantasizing from several generations of us having grown up watching Bambi and countless Disney cartoons that make animals out to be cute, loving, peaceful creatures.

Just 'aint so.

And if you don't believe me, take a nice long hike in the Sierra mountains right after the bears leave hibernation, wearing your good luck ham around your neck.

Edited July 21, 2005 by Matt Pacini

[Matt Pacini]

I'm skeptical that the Crusades are the only religion-motivated tyranny in history. I think the Crusades have continued to this day.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Agreed.

But my point was, we hear so much about all the evil "crazy religious people" has done throughout history (which I'm not saying I disagree with), when in fact "crazy atheists" have killed FAR more people with their misguided ideology.

 

So if someone's going to make a theological point of blame for all the carnage (which they are), then logic and statistics would dictate that the blame would have to be on NOT believing in God, not the other way around.

 

And I'd have to disagree over the "divine entitlement" being the same as being religious. Hitler thought it was "fate" that he rule, but that's certainly not the same as being religious.

 

MP

[Mike Lary]

And I'd have to disagree over the "divine entitlement" being the same as being religious. Hitler thought it was "fate" that he rule, but that's certainly not the same as being religious.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Divine - emanating from God.

Hitler believed in mysticism.

The swastika has its roots there.

Mysticism is a religious belief system.

Edited July 21, 2005 by MikeL