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Angenieux 17.5-70 in C-mount vs Primes etc.


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Can anyone help me with sourcing an Angenieux 17.5-70 in C mount at a reasonable price?  I've been hunting this particular lens for a long while in the background, but as I get set for a new project I feel like this lens will be really good for it, and have no leads. 

The other option would be to shoot with switars and my Kinoptik 5.7 on the Bolex EBM, but I don't like how 'pure' the switars appear sometimes.  I like the aesthetics of the Angenieux look, and if I had to go with primes may opt for even an M42 adapter with bokeh blasters like Helios stills lenses etc.  I wanted to ideally get by with use of my Switar POE 16-100 zoon for this, but I am pretty sure that two-blade iris is going to cause ridiculous bokeh I will likely hate in the edit.  My only option to counter that would be using crazy nets to flare out the star shapes where it appears, which is part of the acceptability politics of this lens tango I am in I guess...

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Just curious, what is it about the Angenieux 17.5-70 that you particularly like?

I have the 17-68 with a dogleg finder, still testing it and I am not super familiar with the characteristics of the Angenieux zooms. I have used the Pan-Cinors quite a bit and the footage certainly looks like it came out of a late 60's news report.

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12 minutes ago, Webster C said:

Just curious, what is it about the Angenieux 17.5-70 that you particularly like?

I have the 17-68 with a dogleg finder, still testing it and I am not super familiar with the characteristics of the Angenieux zooms. I have used the Pan-Cinors quite a bit and the footage certainly looks like it came out of a late 60's news report.

Hi Webster.  Thanks for the reply --

It seems to be the only lightweight, high quality, relatively updated (for vintage Angenieux zooms anyway) zoom that covers a full 1-inch image circle for use with Super 16.  Part of my attraction to zooms is ease of use and certain cinematic aspects for shots that require a creeping zoom look that I'll be doing, but the large part of it is due to the lower contrast look and higher quality bokeh of the zoom while still remaining sharp enough for use. 

I would use the Vario-Switar POE 16-100 for all the same reasons if it weren't for the crap bokeh it can break out into.  Anyway, I'll be using a lot of hard light and diffusion, then pushing the processing to add contrast, so I think those techniques will offset the lower contrast of the glass and render the 'benevolent qualities' of this characterful lens.  Take a look at what it does on a basic BMPCC for field of view comparison -- thats exactly why...

 

Edited by Matthew B Clark
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The lens looks really nice in that clip on the Merchant City Festival.

There is another candidate, the Ang 15-150. May be from a similar point in history to the 12-120 and 9.5-57 zooms, but is very sharp. They were reasonably priced on eBay 3 years ago, mine sold for $750, but may be scarce now and cost more. 

All those lenses can come with or be switched to c mount, fairly sure. But if there is a solution where you can adapt Arri-s and Arri-B mount lenses to your cameras now, it would be better strategy to aquire lenses with those mounts now so you can use them on your next camera, Arri ST, SR, Eclair ACL, Aaton, etc.

You may find some Schneider primes still cheap for 16mm. If you can borrow some and try them, I think you will really like them. 

Cheers,

Gregg.

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Thank you for the thoughtful reply, Gregg.  I've thought of the 15-150 too -- which has a lot of what I'm after, yes....but is it gargantuan for a c-mount adapter?  I could probably affix a lens support, but yeah, we are quickly escalating into the territory of 'tricked out Yugo's,' you're right.  I originally felt the small 17.5-70 would slot in with weight and size just right without the need for a bigger rig.  The EBM has that bayonet mount, and I would have it hanging off a C-mount Bolex adapter to boot.  So yeah, it would require a full step up in rig support for that, new rails, tripod, lens support.  Otherwise I'd probably do it.  I like the range of it, as I prefer the long end of lenses pretty naturally.  So yeah, in  summation, both my rig and my tastes are working against me in the 'shot stability' department I guess.  The 17.5-70 seemed like a n effort to naturally combat all that.  Still getting me to 70mm on a S16mm frame. 

The Schneider primes look great.  I've seen some comparisons of these to Zeiss primes (standard speeds I think), and I actually prefer them over the Zeiss.  The Zeiss give me a really complicated reaction aesthetically -- they seem to be technically superior lenses, but they have that same ubiquitous appeal in their quality that say, top 40 radio songs do when they are recorded.  I mean sure, if I were the last man on Earth, and no films existed, and I lay atop a mountain with two cases containing a set of Zeiss and a set of Schneider, I might well pick the Zeiss there, but since we live in a world where everyone wants a top 40 radio hit, I owe it to myself not to pick the thoughtless copycat jerk route.  How good is that guy's movie going to be?  Notice I said good, not shiny.

Edited by Matthew B Clark
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The 15-150 is about identical in the body to a 12-120, which may be common enough that you have seen one. I used a 120120 with a c mount and I thought it was sturdy enough without support. Once you have a big bump or some accident the loads on the C mount will be much higher than Arri, CA-1, Aaton mounts.

I understand the romance with the Schneiders. Some people probably feel the same way about old Zeiss superspeeds vis a vis the latest sharpest lenses.

Sudden thought....Alternatives to using a C mount lens. Will an adapter work. Arri-S or B to Bolex bayonet. Or a  Bolex bayonet remount for the lens? Guys like Less Bosher are good with custom mounts, and if it's been made before it gets easier and cheaper.

Edited by Gregg MacPherson
Sudden thought.
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On 12/23/2019 at 3:30 PM, Gregg MacPherson said:

120120

Sorry, typo, that was 12-120.

I looked on eBay and there are still some Schneider primes in Arri-S cheap, and Cooke Kinetal too.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-SUPER-16-SCHNEIDER-ARRIFLEX-CINE-XENON-1-4-25MM-LENS-for-16MM-MOVIE-CAMERA/133074023272?_trkparms=aid%3D1110002%26algo%3DSPLICE.SOI%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20190711095549%26meid%3Dcb3f1c875b7447e9b7a1d454e59b6588%26pid%3D100009%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D143281577490%26itm%3D133074023272%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2047675&_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982

 

Sorry, don't know why that URL is so long.

Edited by Gregg MacPherson
aplogy.
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