Steadiness issues

John Adolfi · August 26, 2005

Here has been my experience with super-8 and the jitters. The best camera so far was the Nikon R-10 with the chrome plate inserted. The Elmo 1012 did a good job too. Then I got a double super 8 camera and shot a 200 foot roll of Black and white. I thought the results would be surperior to the Nikon due to the metal gate the film travels through. The results were dissapointing. The film jittered more alot more than the Nikon without the chrome plate. My next step is to try a Leicina and or a Fujica camera. What have been your experiences?

Nate Downes · August 26, 2005

I've had few jittering issues with my Chinon cameras.

A.Oliver · August 26, 2005

Hello, canon 814/1014xls and leicina special give me steadier images than my late canon ds-8 and the current bolex ds-8. Beaulieu 7008 not as steady as the canon and leicina. Outed the canon ds-8 as the image quality was poor compared to the bolex primes. Sadly due to the slight unsteadiness of the bolex which is only noticable locked on a tripod, the camera is used for home movies/baby on lawn stuff. Once my 26 rolls of k25 are used up thats me finished with ds-8. I was advised by a member of another forum that ''to achieve rock steady images on a converted bolex, internal parts require changing. By changeing just the gate/sprockets each 5 or 6th frame becomes out of alignment, thus the impression of jitter''!!!. ''A proper din converted bolex costs around 3000 euro''. The guy who can convert a bolex is....

Ruedi Muster

Film & Fernsehtechnik

2545 Selzach

Phone: ++41 (0) 32 641 10 46

Fax: ++41 (0) 32 641 10 59

He only speaks German.

I would of invested in a proper conversion if k25 was still made, which is the only reason i use the format.

Used some ds-8 k40 thru the canon ds-8, images on the canon 814xls were just as sharp/stable and yeilded better colour saturation.

On the whole the super 8 cartridge is just as good as my experiances with double super 8 with regards steadiness. The only exception is image quality, using a switar 5.5mm lens on the bolex and k25 filmstock, imo you get unsurpassed super 8 image quality.

Andy

Machado · August 27, 2005

Steadiness issues with super8 are not always evident, but they do exist. First of, most of the frame is masked during projection so watching the frame line where this action is most noticeable is not always possible.

If you telecine a roll through an enlarged gate to expose the whole film area, you may notice it what you though was steady is in fact not so..

I personally have not had any bad issues with cart jitter and such, I just acknowledge that many have and that the problems are real and not fabricated. Best thing to do is run tests with your particular equipment and film batch and see if your happy with the results. If so, problems should be minimal

A.Oliver · August 31, 2005

Further to my previous comments, projected recent footage thru a bauer t610 and noris 342 projectors. Leicina special yields the steadiest images followed by the canons, beaulieu 7008. Must point out my current leicina is a mint example with hardly any use, looks almost brand new. My previous special was more jittery probably had a hard life!!!! All footage recently shot with 3/2006 k40

bolex ds-8 yeilds the best image quality with k25 and prime lenses.

Andy

John Adolfi · August 31, 2005

Further to my previous comments, projected recent footage thru a bauer t610 and noris 342 projectors. Leicina special yields the steadiest images followed by the canons, beaulieu 7008. Must point out my current leicina is a mint example with hardly any use, looks almost brand new. My previous special was more jittery probably had a hard life!!!! All footage recently shot with 3/2006 k40
bolex ds-8 yeilds the best image quality with k25 and prime lenses.

Andy

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well I'd like to add to this discussion with some new feedback. Planning on getting into fuji.

Think about it. Incredible quality control at the Fuji labs. Full metal gate with pressure plate when filming. 25ada daylight balanced film and 200asa tungsten balanced film. Plus an extra $4 a roll and you can have a sound stripe added. Downside: slight added expense ($26 for asa 25 and $28 for asa 200.) and additional wait time for the processing 4-6 weeks. Any thoughts?

September 1, 2005

Here has been my experience with super-8 and the jitters. The best camera so far was the Nikon R-10 with the chrome plate inserted. The Elmo 1012 did a good job too. Then I got a double super 8 camera and shot a 200 foot roll of Black and white. I thought the results would be surperior to the Nikon due to the metal gate the film travels through. The results were dissapointing. The film jittered more alot more than the Nikon without the chrome plate. My next step is to try a Leicina and or a Fujica camera. What have been your experiences?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would strongly recommend the legendary Leicina Special. Having shot over a hundred carts in the past year on mine, I've only had one cart which was unstable. After having it telecined with the sprocket holes and frame lines visible, it was clear that the sprocket holes on the troublesome cart were stretched/damaged by the camera and as it pulled through the sticking cart which obviously didn't want to transport freely (and made a strange clicking sound when shooting, revealing my field notes).

The Special was designed to eliminate most problems associated with the format and was marketed with an extensive line of scientific equipment for micro, macro and endo experiments and observation, and used at universities around the world. A high speed version was also produced.

The Special is able to produce more stable images than anything else in small gauge that is is not pin registered thanks to a unique narrow teflon-coated gate. I did an extensive investigation of this feature here: http://www.filmshooting.com/scripts/forum/...?t=7252&start=0 but unfortunately I see that the images have been moved to another gallery and renamed by the site adminstrator there, rendering the investigation into one of super 8's great mysteries less than complete for people to view now. I would recommend you pick up a copy of the new first issue of SmallFormat magazine as there is supposedly an article which covers Leicinas and talks about this feature. http://www.atollmedien.de/smallformat/

I also responded to challenges from users of single 8, regular 8, and double super 8 users to "prove it" and I did so by shooting and posting a thirty second plus locked down clip of plus-x, complete with frame lines and sprocket holes visible. I posted my response to the challenge on four different occasions on the webboard where it happened and invited anybody to match or beat the stability of the image presented. Nobody did.

Another great feature of the Special is that it is the easiest super 8 camera in the world to do a clean and lubrication job on! It is simply three screws to take off the side of the camera, and then one on the electronics panel and you can flip it up and have complete wide-open access to all the moving parts and clean and lubricate them! I did it on mine in a pleasant afternoon after that faulty cart got me concerned. The super 8 wikki has a terrific little article: http://super8wiki.com/index.php/Leicina_Special:_Repair

Edited September 1, 2005 by santo

Nate Downes · September 1, 2005

Too bad that article is missing the pictures there Santo, I was studying the R10's gate design lately, and wanted to see the Leica comparison.

Note, my Chinon does the same not-in-alignment springs of the gate.

Ric Kemp · August 27, 2008

Well I'd like to add to this discussion with some new feedback. Planning on getting into fuji.
Think about it. Incredible quality control at the Fuji labs. Full metal gate with pressure plate when filming. 25ada daylight balanced film and 200asa tungsten balanced film. Plus an extra $4 a roll and you can have a sound stripe added. Downside: slight added expense ($26 for asa 25 and $28 for asa 200.) and additional wait time for the processing 4-6 weeks. Any thoughts?

find Super 8 cartridges jumpy, but that doesn't trouble me, because i accept it as an aspect of Super 8 filmmaking. Single 8 is steady because the film pressure plate is built into the camera, so it cannot jiggle about. i have found though, that R25N and Velvia 50D run much more smoothly through one of my Single 8 cameras than Orwo UN 54 ~ this is almost certainly something to do with the age of the camera, since another Single 8 camera films with it without issue. But i still wonder why the filmstocks differ - even fractionally - are some marginally thicker/thinner than others, or wound tighter - just cannot decide?

R