Ric Kemp

the subject of this thread has been troubling me so i uploaded another Velvia test, same film, same camera, deeper colours, no idea why? http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=kRZCm1NO0mc this film was captured with a Canon MV830i mini dv cam which allows you to select up to half-a-dozen shutter speeds with ease, here it was 1/50 no idea what speed the projector is running at - the variable speed dial suggests 24fps but the film motion suggests nearer 18fps, and yes, some of this footage is actually slow motion filmed with the ZC-1000 bests Ric ps. why do some uploads go into *mega pixel mode* whilst others do the opposite - is it something to do with internet connection speeds, please?

Hi Art, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irv2sALwHxo&fmt=6 that is very helpful and instructive to watch - i imagine the slight frame unsteadiness in the first clip is more to do with the ciné set up than the transfer? beautiful footage :) imho regarding the speed - you are going to be NTSC i think, which will change things slightly between us - what speed is your original K40 ciné film fimed at though: 25, 24, 18fps? This will also have a bearing on gaining or losing 'flicker' i think? oh right, the image deterioration in 'night mode' you sometimes get slap wrists [lol] thanks, i've looked at these, but i think the Sony will drive me nuts considering all the variables which already exist in dv-ciné transfers; am going back to my Canon for a while, which can at least fix a speed, if not give me the zoom-crop i'm after i've approached this the wrong way, of course, which is typical of me - instead of trying out one unknown, i've been testing out untried - projector ciné camera film stock dv cam all at the same time :-o however, the projector ~ Elmo GP-E ~ is a vast improvement on my original Chinon 8811, which jumped the film / lost its film loop every 30 seconds, just when you'd got everything set up perfect, the loop went :o this does not happen with the Elmo: there's little doubt that waiting for one of the later projectors is a good move, they are much more reliable than the pre- and 1970's models i think? thanks again ;) Ric

Hi Rolando, Your results are excellent - i don't understand the equation but if you are using speeds of 20fps and near 30fps with a 5 blade shutter, at some point you are going to achieve synchronicity, i would have thought, because all the numbers are going to be divisible by 5? Many thanks - i could obviously do with a cam that has a fixed shutter speed [1/50] to use as a control In theory, my 3 blade projector run at 16.67fps, videoed @ 1/50 should give me synchronisation, but only with a fixed dv cam shutter speed :-o bests Ric

when you say 'noise' what do you mean please - unclear image, unsteady image, or something else? [ :)) ] hi Art, yes it helps - but although i am not totally disatisfied with the test, what you say concerning fully auto shutter speeds (default) could be my worst nightmare :-o i wonder if by choosing one of the 'modes' i could hit on the 1/50 [if only Sony had told us which mode was which shutter speed? even they don't appear to know [groan] failing all i guess i could go back to the Canon MV830i and fit it with a magnifyer filter, if they make them dv-cam sized? i only got the Sony cos i could crop right in with its zoom there is something very weird with this set up, in that, when i transferred with the Canon, what you saw on the monitor was what you got in the transfer; with the Sony i was getting good results on the monitor but they'd turned to slow strobe in the software playback. i got round this by speeding the film right up to (at least) 25fps, but that speed - though not excessive - started to confuse either the Sony cam or the software ... in retrospect, that must have been the cam going bananas, the software was just recording it; if the cam is trying to match 25 frames per second with auto shutter speeds, no wonder it is left spinning in circles? yes, it would be UK 1/50 PAL, and on the Canon i can select this, but i lose the extra zoom crop need to think about this one :-| Re. 'oversaturated' - the Velvia 50 (tone) processed film, looks quite similar to what you see in the test, it does not do the saturated colour thing on me; not sure why, i strove to expose it optimally all the while; there is some loss of brightness overall, but this is due to the transfer many thanks Ric

thanks Art all i can say is - this is not for the faint hearted ciné camera Fuji ZC1000 / dv cam Sony Handycam HC51E; projector: customised Elmo GP-E 'dual 8' original film @ 18fps bought the Sony on account of its mega 40x zoom (for cropping in) but beware - this cam has no manual shutter speed control or any shutter speed data, prior to filming. am currently trying to obtain information on the default sh/speed from Sony Corporation. this is obviously an issue for ciné:dv transfer. the default shutter speed is probably 1/50th the test image held steady to the naked eye - on the monitor - at approximately 16.67fps, but the software didn't like it, and it strobed the best result was between 24 - 25fps on the projector: the software liked most of this - stable image - but phased here and there, remarkably fading out a section at one stage, and converting several seconds of film to negative. i have no idea why this is happening but i imagine the software is struggling to read the frames at 25fps, so i need to continue experimenting (i actually like home-made experimental movie making btw :) if you compare this test to my first ever transfer, you will see that progress has been made; but i can well understand folks opting for pro transfers, which are always brilliant i am certainly not encountering the over-saturated look with the Velvia 50 though? first transfer http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=X7KLb3xbFX4 bests Ric

my own Velvia 50 test here http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=wWAp1Pxv8_Q home-transfer experiment the film is speeded to 24-25fps then slowed back down to 18fps digitally. had to do this because the software did not like the approximate 16.67fps, reason unknown some detail has suffered digitally but the tones are what i basically saw in my ciné editor, tending to 'pastel' as opposed to saturate apparent frame movement is due to transfer, the original footage is frame static using Pinnacle 9 av/dv software thanks R

bump i film at 18fps. the variable speed on this 3 blade projector is 14-24fps, so i thought no worries searching for 16.67fps. But the least amount of flicker - on my mini dv lcd - occurs at the full 24fps setting how is this so please, if the (universal dv?) default shutter speed on the dv cam is 1/50th sec, that ought to match 3x 16.67 precisely? this is weird. has this got something to do with 25 fps PAL, so that the projector is actually trying (and almost succeeding) to match the 25 frame rate? so what happened to the mini dv cam 1/50 shutter speed? well confused! :huh: R

or his projector lens? generally associate super sharp visuals to video which i find hard on the eye - i much prefer the softer imagery aforded by photographic emulsion ;) R

nice no flicker - even at 2fps mismatch? are you keystoning or what method are you using please? obviously the tones are altered, but that always adds a charm i find musical inspiration from the 50's? - lovely strings bests Ric

hi, noticed an Elmo GP-E projector up for grabs a while ago, with a variable speed control, so was interested to acquire it, and convert it for ciné-dv transfer. i had presumed it would have 'pots' or potentiometers to alter the speed but i was wrong. when i looked inside what do i find but another speed rheostat - similar but smaller to my Chinon 'IQ' variable speed control. darn, have yet to get to grips with a pot :( never mind - the Chinon can jump the film so i have high hopes this Elmo with give me a smoother run for my money the rheostat is much easier to get at than the Chinon, which was practically molded into the metal casing, so things are getting off to a good start (hope) does anyone have any experience of this particular model please? thanks Ric

commercial batteries are actually a huge advantage over digital re-charger battery packs, which will sink you out in the wilds, if they play out; whereas a good supply of AA's will keep you filming till the end ;) i was taking digital stills in a church the other day, and recharged the battery the night before: half way through the shoot the battery played out. luckily i had the recharger with me, and there was a socket in the church. i left a donation [halo] R

bravo! that's the Super 8 shake ;) yes, there's colour saturation there - but also some heavy contrast in the shadows, which is going to give those greens a deep, rich feel? may need to experiment with exposure? Single 8 cameras have their film pressure plates built into the camera itself, so you don't get so much wobble bests Ric

thanks - not sure if i should have done a Single 8 Blog instead, but never mind :-o took the ZC-1000 [ZCM] out today with Fuji Velvia and got in a right pickle - prepared for anything i over-reacted :D but i wasn't laughing at the time inserted film in camera and tested: sprocket turning - no worries filmed whole cassette - no problems :) removed cassette and manual rewound to start, in Z-2 body - to save motor - this went like clockwork (smoothly) but i was slightly phased because there doesn't seem to be anything printed at the beginning of Velvia films, like there is on R25N? but no worries - re-inserted cassette into ZCM. Experiment in double exposure. Now the real fun began. I had mistakenly dropped the Forward-Reverse switch on the ZCM, instead of the on/off, so when i started filming again nothing happened! checked everything and went through new routine of removing cassette in film-changing-bag, agitating it, then replacing it in camera, cassette in bag all the while. Of course, still no progress when i pressed the release button. changed batteries. no effect. stumped :unsure: at that point i must have scanned the right side panel ready to 'lock' button the camera, that's when i noticed the directional switch in the 'R' reverse position. Flicking this back to 'F' forward resulted in the camera filming normally [floods of relief] and smoothly till the end of the second run. filmed at 18fps (my standard) plus slow (36fps) and ultra slow (72fps) all without issue did not lap dissolve - this is where i picked up problems initially. i have a Velvia earmarked for lap dissolve ~ out in the open again ~ in about a month, weather permitting. Then i will put the 'M' through everything plus the lap dissolve, and see what my luck is - i think the 'badger-in-the-bag' procedure will sort any problems, if they arise: a small price to pay for such an excellent camera + (Fuji zoom) lens swopping lenses to a Canon FD 75-300mm zoom was tricky though - it is highly critical of light and (weird) its manual aperture has no apparent effect on the camera's light meter; using neutral density x4 and x8 filters works, as does manipulating the fractional exposure setting, but whatever satisfactory light reading you achieve is a fine balancing act: the least amount of extra illumination or shade in a scene will send the meter zooming into over or under expose. i do not understand why this should be so? The Fuji lens behaves normally with respect to the manual aperture and its effect on the light meter but i am well pleased to put a new Velvia cassette through the camera - twice - with no actual glitches at all, apart from my own hyperopic blundering :-o lol R

Hi, due to the relative paucity of Single 8 forums for discussion, on the web, i have decided to start a yahoo group dedicated to this format http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/single8cinefilm/ please drop by if you feel you can add anything to this new forum - the challenges to Single 8 are not inconsiderable at this crossroads in the medium's existence, with the eventual phasing out of Fujichrome and the brave advent of new filmstocks still in their infancy - i personally believe Single 8 is a format well worth holding in there with, even in these uncertain economic times hope to see you there! ;) Ric

this evening i took the Velvia cassette which jammed on me during a lap dissolve [28 August]. i took it in the palm of my hand so that the cassette was parallel with the floor, on which i placed a broad hardback book. i then moderately slammed the cassette down, rotating spindle surfaces as i did so - flat side to flat side - about a dozen times: hard enough to jolt the cassette, but not hard enough to damage it. i then placed it in my Z2 ~ the spindle turned as normal; after a while i removed the cassette and placed it in the ZC-1000: the spindle turned as normal; i continued filming until the spindle stopped rotating. i removed the cassette and noted that the film had ended as per normal, showing the 'end indentation' at the end of the footage when i say the cassette had jammed i mean it had jammed solid - to the point where the Z2 manual rewind wouldn't turn any more; jolting the cassette has undone all the tightening tension, resulting from back-winding the film in future i will take a film changing bag with me, and if the film jams again, unload the cassette in total darkness and repeat the above procedure i saw this done over 20 years ago to an audio cassette which had stopped rotating - the guy in the shop just banged it on the counter a few times, and it started turning again :-o R

Cinevia Velvia asa 50 test 13/Aug/08 - processed by Andec - filmed with Fujica ZC-1000. Summary: trees filmed through window + object on window sill, sunny day two lenses - Fuji 7.5-75mm zoom + Canon 75-200mm zoom via 'C' mount adapter; the former being initially modified with a Kood close-up filter as an experiment this time, the Cinevia cassette allowed me to backwind / lap dissolve, without any problem at all - were this always the case i would be in 7th heaven the colours looked 'true' on the ciné editor, and not saturated in any sense - although mostly green foliage filmed, a coffee mug with a red design on it was also filmed; the film finished as i began experimenting with the 36 - 72fps settings i tried a lap dissolve in the field about a week after this test and ended up with a jammed cassette - i have no real idea why one film will run smoothly and another not; Retro-X also behaves like this: i think the emulsion must be causing some sort of friction in the cassette - this might cause the film to expand and jam? or maybe the action of forwarding and reversing the film is just tightening the whole cassette up? remember the old C60 audio cassettes - when they at length siezed up, whacking them on a table top, in the palm of the hand, jolted the coils loose again ~ i just wonder if a similar piece of unsophisticated tech-bodge might come out on top here? this is good film; these are good cameras imho R

they used to stock Small Format at the Widescreen Centre in London and i used to pick up a copy every time i went up there for film. last time i visted they weren't stocking SF any more; in fact they said they didn't stock any ciné publications any more - this is London's premier 8mm ciné store? Ric

am not quitting on new ZC-1000. Cinevia are so close to producing a relaible Single 8 format they just have to get it right ;) Ric

Update ran a whole cassette of R25N through the ZC-1000 yesterday, went through without so much as a hiccup (camera test) - and bought two new R25's from Single8.com, there must be a source somewhere - has Fuji started making ciné film again? also heard that the problem with the new filmstock running, is not in the cassettes themselves, but the fact that the new film types are 1] thicker(?) and 2] do not have the slippery-smoothness (anti-halation?) property as the old Fuji film, and hence the less than smooth running sometimes encountered but all in all, i can only applaud this bold attempt to breathe new life into Single 8, these are great cameras and deserve filmstock to run through them: i will continue to use both Super and Single 8, so long as 8mm film remains to be filmed with ;) R

thanks. this obviously concerns me. K40 colour was preferable to me over Fujica's blue-tonality, but i still liked Fuji film a lot. what really appealed to me about Single 8 was that you had complete control over back-wind / manual lap dissolve, whereas Super 8 cartridges are hermetically sealed, and the lap-dissolve function on my 2 Nizo's is (now) unreliable yelps of ecstacy, therefore, when i read of the revolution in Single 8 cassette manufacture which was replacing Fujichrome with similar emulsions and (gasp) Super 8 type emulsions. however, i have scarcely had time to evaluate the tonality of the new filmstocks because the new cassettes give me problems, whenever i try to backwind - a basic engineering design question - quite apart from the chemistry, it seems? suggestions welcome Ric

Hi Andy circuschrome? wittner 100D - are not all the new Single 8 stocks ultimately Retro8/Cineva ~ i thought Wittner just repackaged them, under their white label, whereas the Cineva label is green; but film and film cassettes identical? thanks R

find Super 8 cartridges jumpy, but that doesn't trouble me, because i accept it as an aspect of Super 8 filmmaking. Single 8 is steady because the film pressure plate is built into the camera, so it cannot jiggle about. i have found though, that R25N and Velvia 50D run much more smoothly through one of my Single 8 cameras than Orwo UN 54 ~ this is almost certainly something to do with the age of the camera, since another Single 8 camera films with it without issue. But i still wonder why the filmstocks differ - even fractionally - are some marginally thicker/thinner than others, or wound tighter - just cannot decide? R

Hi, i understand Fuji Velvia 50D is an E6 process? does this mean you can develop it like 64T, without having to scape of the anti-halation layer, which would be the case with the old Fuji R25N for example? thanks Ric