S16 DI...

Chris Blaine · September 21, 2005

Hello all,

I've directed a short film called "Death Of The Revolution" about a ten year-old who realises he should start a revolution in his primary school. It was shot on S16mm, we've reached final cut using Beta SP telecine'd rushes, but we're looking to go from S16mm to HDCAM (or better if we can afford it - which is unlikely) to grade the pictures before coming back out onto 35mm for a final print.

There is a section in the film which turns into a dream sequence in the shot - the film is inspired by Russian revolutionary propaganda and so I'd like the picture to become grainier and black-and-white bar for all the reds. This transition happens in one shot, so my first thoughts were to print that section of the film onto S16mm before taking both this grainier print and the neg cut with us to the film-in suite (we're hoping to use a Spirit) where we'd be able to get the two looks pretty correct before editing them together with a cross-fade in an HD suite, where we could do final tweaks to the look before putting it back out to film...

However here in Britain there seem to be fewer and fewer 16mm printers in action so I'm not sure how possible that would be. Would it be worth my while to get as grainy a 35mm print I can get for that section? Are there other ways of getting more film grain? Are we best to get the pictures looking as near to what we want in the Spirit suite or to wait to use the (comparatively cheaper) HD suite to get the grade we want? My producers are scratching around for money so they'd be happy if there were cheaper alternatives.

Also this is my - and our DoP's - first time using film properly (Most of our stuff we've shot on HDCAM or other forms of video, we've had a couple of things printed to film which turned out well and we were very happy with, but our film experience amounts to a couple of shorts on 16mm before which has been TK'd and edited and graded from the tape, as well as quite a bit of S8mm we've projected and shot onto video - but never shooting film and getting a neg cut and a decent grade) so if anyone has any more advice to give on the subject I'd be much obliged.

Chris

(First time poster, long time reader, thanks for all the help you've all given me in the past without me even having to ask a question...)

Phil Rhodes · September 21, 2005

Hi,

Couldn't you just shoot the grainy stuff on a much faster stock, push it, etc?

Also, any competent tool will have a "more grain" button anyway.

Phil

Chris Blaine · September 22, 2005

It's already been shot and edited. The change in look happens in a single shot, the colour draining from the picture (bar the reds) and getting grainier. What do you mean by a 'competent tool'...?

Graham McGuinness · September 29, 2005

Hi Chris, have you matched the neg, or do you have an EDL that you need to pull off the lab rolls? Ideally a cheap scan, and and a digital grade is the obvious way t go here- then you can render a DPX sequence for the filmout. How much footage have you got? A DI grade in downtime ina decent system like baselight is going to allow you teh control you desire.

I would look to do a DI finish for best results. going to 35mm off std def tape is going to be a dissapointing experience, particularly given that you originated on film...

of course I realise cost is the killer here...

Good luck

Graham

London

Dimitrios Koukas · September 29, 2005

It's already been shot and edited. The change in look happens in a single shot, the colour draining from the picture (bar the reds) and getting grainier. What do you mean by a 'competent tool'...?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just take the negative to a telecine (if you can afford it), do the colour correction there or add grain and take it out on a HD that u can then send it for 4k scanning.

Take the new S16negative and add it in your original when u do the negative cutting/editing.

Then blow-up the whole thing to 35mm for theatrical release.

Dimitrios Koukas

September 29, 2005

This seems like a very straight-forward effect for us to do. As Graham said, we can use the DI system to animate the look, including grain and color. The DI suite I think is the best place to do that, since you can play with the timing and settings to get precisely the look you want. As far as costs, Telecine to HDCAM-SR done the right way (protecting dmin/dmax, flat, steep gamma, etc.) will let us approach the quality of doing a full scan for only a fraction of the price.

Ideally a cheap scan, and and a digital grade is the obvious way t go here- then you can render a DPX sequence for the filmout. How much footage have you got? A DI grade in downtime ina decent system like baselight is going to allow you teh control you desire.
I would look to do a DI finish for best results. going to 35mm off std def tape is going to be a dissapointing experience, particularly given that you originated on film...

of course I realise cost is the killer here...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dominic Case · September 30, 2005

It's already been shot and edited.

Ah! there's the problem.

While you can probably get away with some of the digital grain-adding tools, why didn't you think of this before shooting?

Using the fastest stock available - or shooting with a wider lens, framing for a small area in the middle of the frame and then blowing that area up to the full frame either in the scan or later would have given you genuine film grain with less effort.