Marquette Trishaun

After playing with the aspect ratio on standard definition 4:3 aspect ratio video on my HD television, I have the following questions regarding a 16mm project I am shooting. I own a 16mm camera package and plan to shoot my last short film intended for festivals and DVD only on the camera before saving up to convert it to super. Is there a significant difference in the quality of the image if you crop to the 16x9 aspect ratio and blow up during the film scan to a 1080P wide screen log file, or perform the manipulation in post say on your Final Cut system. The reason I ask is because to the untrained eye, the manipulation games that HD televisions play to show 4:3 video in widescreen is pretty good. How does this work with regards to the fidelity of the talent you are filming. In other words, can a Angelina Jolie become distorted and fat due to a bad conversion algorithm by a cheap model TV that simply scretched the image. How do I insure my images will maintain my artistic intent on both the HD and regular definition set. Is there a universal format I'm not aware of. Thanks for reading this convoluted question, now save me please!!!

It that's what the specs state, then that's the case. It's not the end of the world though, unless a camera is 4:4:4 which is rarely the case without spinning lots of dough, we all have to live with this to certain degree. In the end game it's all about your intended audience, for a lot of people could care less about the not so perfect keying. There things you can do with the background like using light backgrounds and particle effects around the hair to take away from the imperfections. Me personally the best keying I've ever achieved has been with film transferred at a house with the 4:4:4 color space as a telecine option. Then again this post is about HD - well see you back on the film side, LOL.

Hope its not too late, but anyone purchasing a camera that uses the 4:2:0 color space should be very weary when attempting to do green screen work. I agree that to the human eye you can't tell the difference, but for edge detail in computer keying (even with Ultra 2) it can be a problem. Even after you up convert back to 4:2:2 or 4:4:4, once the averaging is done its done. The reason being is this. 4:2:2, means each two pixels across are represented by a 1 pixels average of the two, meaning you have two pixel values for the 4. Thus 4:4:4 represents 4 pixels with four pixes. When you have 4:2:0, this averaging is done across both the rows and columns of the pixel space resulting in even more averaging. In lamens terms, your green edge gets blurred with your subject of interest producing a muddy texture that is difficult to key in any system without pain staking work. I love the hell out of the JVC camera, just be aware that you wil shed some tears due to this mathematical fact. Now to avoid any blast from anyone seeing things in a different light, I have worked, designed, and made a living in digital image processing for the last 10 years, so yes this is a scientific fact. -Marquette

Dear Group, I am having some trouble deciphering the gray squares (20 to 23) on my Macbeth chart. The numbers correspond to terms like "neutral 8 (.23)". Is this any relation to how the gray card it specked at 18% gray etc. In other words does any particular patch approximate 18% gray. My wild guess would be that each increment is roughly a stop or so up from black. -thanks, Marquette

Thanks for the great info, pretty much puts me back at square one, LOL. Not that everyone would care, but I definitely think puts a lot of old information floating around out there as fact to rest. -Marquette

Worked like a charm. Thanks a million. -Marquette

Thanks alot Michael, I thought something was a little funny. Do you have any recomendations for companies that can perform this calibration. Also, if I were upgrade to newer model in the same vain, do you know of similar issues with it also. Overall I like Sekonics functionality and would like to stay in this family. -Marquette

Hello All, Recently I was doing color testing for an upcoming production. The incident light readings using my Sekonic Light meter were perfect yielding very predicatble results. Secondly I needed to achieve similar results using a reflected spot reading, due to some areas of the shot I simply will not be able to get to. So I devised a test to make sure I exposed properly. Here is my test, and here is my results: I used a brown wooden wall for the experiment. 1) My incident light reading up close on the wall with the spear pointed towards the camera was balanced to a 5.6. 2) When I positioned myself at the camera and took a reflected reading of the wooden wall, the meter yielded a wopping f-stop of 8. In this case, I was expecting the meter to yield f-stop on the other side like say a 2.8 or something because it percieved that the dark wood needed more light to register at 18% grey midtone. It is possible that my meter is out of cal. I point out that the only reason I am not using a grey card is because I will not be able to reach some places. -Thanks in advance, Marquette

White heat? How do you make white heat. Is that just the neutral color of say tungsten light using tungsten balanced film. So in other words the orange tone is not the way to go?

Thanks for the tons of great info. Gel frames for my 1k fresnels and on the barndoors for my 2k open face units. My only gripe with the barndoor approach is that by the time I have adjusted the shape of the light and applied the gels, we usually spend an equal amount of time trying to reduce and control the spill etc. Also, thanks for the info on the Storaro series of Gels. I do have a ROSCO swatchbook, but in the end game I am trying to find my taste in mood without having to test a million and one different shades and colors. I understand what ROSCO is attempting to do. But their gel charts are a bit cumbersome, blue for a midnight, blue for midnight by the ocean, blue for when you thought you wanted blue but needed red. I'll just trust Storaro on this next project and call it a day. Sorry for the rant, Marquette

So it is late summer in Miami Florida. Two people are sharing a flat together on what might just be the hottest night in August. The air conditioner is broken leaving only a simple metal fan to sustain life. Okay so maybe Spike Lee already achieved this in "Do the Right Thing," but I am curious as to what are best gels and overall color temperature to go for in this scene. The reason I ask is that my initial inclination was to just warm the whole scene up with gelled tungsten lights and even possibly shoot with daylight balanced stock. But recently I had a friend challenge this notion by insisting that a hot night in hell would almost appear white instead. Even so, how would one achieve this. With gels, or just do with color timing in the lab. One last thing, does anyone has any experience with the Storaro series of gels being offered by Rosco. -Thanks in advance, Marquette

Hello All, My goal is to produce large soft sources of light using (4'x4') silks and open face units (arrilite 2k) etc. Is it possible to cut the gel into a circle and use it like the drop in scrims that came with my lights, or am I stuck buying a 4'x4 sheet and using a frame in addition to my silk frame. I have seen some dichroic temperature shifting filters on BandH photo, but none in the Storaro series like I intend to use. Part two of this question is, am I affecting the quality and color concentration of my light in different ways depending on where the gel is applied. -Thanks in advance, Marquette

Few! The Vision2 200ASA stock is my favorite in the whole wide world, but I doubt very seriously that I'd be able to pull that off in a natural location. In fact the only time I can get away with that stock is on music video or commercial where the lighting doesn't have to be as believable as it is appealing. It would seem to me that the amount of supplemental light required would wash out the natural effects of the place. This brings me back to my original question of how and where to place the lighting such that I can bring the levels up without washing out the venue. Right now if the director or production forced me to use the finer grain stocks I'd be screwed. In the meantime I will check with the establishment to see if the wall fixtures can handle higher wattage bulbs. I know sometimes those fixtures can take speciality bulbs. -Marquette

Thanks David, You are definitely a Super DP, having time to do such beautiful work and respond to posts so quickly. I primarily shoot S16, so I really don't like to push my stock past its natural rating, and I hate going higher than the 320, even though I am shooting more Vision2 500T these days. If you were lighting Cuba Gooding Jr in this scenario, would 1 stop under translate to 2-stops on him considering his complexion. I have trouble sometimes underexposing black skin without producing undesirable skin tones, so any suggestions as to gels and or lighting techniques would be very helpful. Also, in this low-light situation are you one to favor the Vision 2 500T Expression over the regular 7218. Lastly, if I do decide to boost the overall levels, I take it I should hang the china lanterns along the wall line a minimum of say 5ft above the praticals. Maybe the china lanterns would help with skin tones too? Regards, Marquette

Hello All, Recently I secured a very upscale restaurant for a date scene that involves a little one on one dancing afterwards. This location has the perfect balance of dimly lit praticals on the tables along with wall sconces etc. How do you light a scene like this for your actors without disturbing the mood already present. Do I expose for the praticals and bring my actors up to the same level. I am sure you can understand how the inexperienced could completely blow out the delicate balance that already exists. Overall I desire to maintain good contrast, while packing in some believable highlights motivated by these practicals on the faces here and there as they move about. Regards, Marquette

Hopefully I didn't catch you too late on your shoot. But here is my take on that video: Since you are shooting S16, you will need to go with a finer grain stock, anything below the Vision 320T ASA range. Second, I agree that the flare and blowout is largely due to pointing the camera towards the direction of the sun. Be careful with this though, you might want to have a second hand close by to partially flag the lens from the top to insure that the complete image is not blown out. Third, if you are shooting on the finer grain stocks, anything other than the Expression stock, I suggest you look into a Double Fog 1, Soft FX/3, or Pro-Mist 1/8 on the lens. This will lessen the contrast considerably but not to the point of desaturating your colors yielding you that overall dream like quality with rich colors. Finally, I agree that your colorist with have to heavily grade this image. Specifically ask them to bring up the blacks as much as possible with causing pain. You can also have them paint back in any contrast as needed based on your eye. Hope this helps, Marquette

Okay David, So the dominant light source (key) would have the gel combination, along with the fill light too. I think I understand what it means to enhance the color in post. I was watching Amelie with the directors commentary and he described pushing the green in the image to make the green from the flourressant lights stand out more. In doing it this way, I don't have to worry about the cheap sepia tone look generated in Aftereffects and Final Cut Pro. -thanks, Marquette

Hey out there, I have a question pertaining to the overall color balance of a film image. One of the cinematographers I am most impressed with is the work of Rodrigo Prieto in films like Frida and Eight Mile. My question is how does one obtain the blue and green hues etc contained in his images. Do you just gel selected lights with the shades of blue and green, or just take care of it in post. I know you can select and control certain areas of an images exposure by power windows, but do you have the same option with colors. Or do you just tell the colorist to mix blue and green and apply a slight sepia to the whole image. thanks in advance, Marquette

Hey gang, I have a scene in an upcoming film where one night the air-conditioner breaks in an apartment. Overall the look of the film is in a deep brown color tone by using chocolate gels and tabacco filters etc. What I would like is to introduce this heat without changing the overall color tone to the normal hell look. What would you guys suggest to reference the temperature, should I just make the praticals in the scene come off around 2800k. Has anyone every used intentional props like melting ice to add to this effect etc. Last, how natural would it look to add a few sheets of CTO or some other gel to the lights, and which ones more particulary. I know it's a loaded question, so thanks in advance. -Marquette :ph34r:

Thanks a million for all the advice. -Marquette

Hey there, Could someone please explain how to position the green screen to windows in an automobile if you are trying to fake car motion. For example, do you tape the cloth to the windows and back light it, or stand it vertical with about six feet of seperation from the car window of interest. Should the window be down or up. For the effect of street lights as the car rolls down the street, do you just have someone pan a small light from left to right occasionally, switch a red or green gel in and out etc. Obviously I can not afford to shoot with the car in real motion, and I really need this to cut right. thanks in advance, Marquette

Thanks Guys, I can gather a lot from what's been said so far. Although I don't have the money and resources to test out the many different lenses right now, I think I will just pick a good set of primes and learn on a project by project bases. Unless you can shoot the same test with lenses on still cameras that you can with motion picture film by RGB labs. The comments by my friend that threw up a flag for me was his statement about the Cooke glass being slightly warmer than most lenses. Now I can deal with slight differences in things like sharpness, but a lense making an image warmer or cooler is different story.

Hello All, I have a question about the various lense manufacturers out there today. I have a DP friend who squares by the Cooke glass. My only experience is with Canon and Ageneiux (pardon the spelling). Recently I am looking into shooting my next film with a set of primes, and would like to get some different opinions about the avaible choices out there. Also I am looking for opinions about doing anamorphic on S16, is it really worth the hassle. Thanks in advance, Marquette

Thanks Mike, One last question though, the focal length on my 35mm camera is approximately 2 times that of what I am shooting on 16mm? So with my wide angle lens of 20mm, when I translate it back, I should imagine shooting at 10mm on 16mm film camera? -Marquette

Thanks for all the input so far, I gained lots of valuable insight from reading the post on negative fill. Most of all, I can relax a little and trust my eye from now on. The scenes were looking great with the way I lit it, but then I decided to go in an mess it up because of my over dependence on the light meter at this point in my career. On my next project, I plan to just let it flow. The only drawback to this is the cost of film, I figure I could nail this experiment with about $20,000 worth of research capital (LOL).