Jump to content

Alan Lasky

Basic Member
  • Posts

    55
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Everything posted by Alan Lasky

  1. You're sounding a little desperate. Excuse me? I ask people to come in and test the camera for themselves and now I am "desperate?" Typical. No problem, forget it, on second thought please do not ever come in and test the camera. Learn everything you need to know about any new system from blogs. That'll be a closed loop which in this case might be best. However to those who don't find my offer 'desperate' you are welcome to test the Origin anytime. Our on board Flash Mag solution is in development currently. However since it uses some military components we are not the first in line due to some pesky problems overseas. Apparently Apache attack helicopters need solid state gun-camera recording more than the entertainment industry. Who'd a thought it? BTW, have you ever shot with a 'tethered system?' Do you know how our system is 'tethered?' Do you consider the use of a BNC cable for Video-Assist on a film camera a 'tethered' system? Or is this just more: I have held a rifle, I have looked through a scope, so therefore I am a sniper? Alan Lasky
  2. [i myself, would like to know Dalsa's true resolution. Why won't you say anything about it?] Exactly what is "true resolution?" System MTF? The number of pixels on the sensor? The resolution of a chart shot through a 1960's Angenieux zoom or the same chart shot with an Arri Master Prime? The 'resolving power' of the entire imaging system? I can give you an answer for all of those variables, and still it will tell you nothing about "true resolution." Why won't I say anything about it? Because this is a complex question, and indeed as David pointed out in this case, a loaded one. I can however give you the following facts coupled with some personal observations: 1. The Origin sensor has 4096x2048 pixels in a Bayer pattern on the CCD. Of those 4096 pixels 50 (on the far left side) are 'dark' and used as a black reference so the actual captured imaging pixel count in the horizontal direction is 4046. 2. The sensor is larger than a 35mm Academy frame. In fact the Origin sensor is the same size as an entire 35mm frame from side to side. The aspect ratio is actually 2:1 (1.9755859375:1 if you take into account the 50 dark). Now, we disclosed this on our web-site from the start and yet people still cried: "There, you see...it's not 4K!" or, my favorite: "Your mileage may vary." Right-e-oh. We were accused of hiding the fact of lens coverage and its relationship to 'resolution.' Let me state this as plainly as possible due to the fact that our picture on the web site of a 35mm motion picture frame laid over a picture of our sensor did not seem to get the point across. When using some standard 35mm lenses with the Origin the lenses will not cover the entire sensor, so one must extract the useable area (full Academy) from the captured pixels. Now, we have purchased a number of different lenses for rental (you can use any PL mount lens you want on the Origin) and based on the lens coverage we have a different ground glass for each format (1.85, 2.35, 16x9, etc). For example if you are using the Cooke s4 series, or the Arri Ultra Primes they were designed to cover only the Academy aperture, so you tell us: "I want to shoot with the Cooke s4 lenses at 1.85." We then put in the ground glass that has 1.85:1 markings imaged *inside* the Academy frame and you shoot some test material. We then extract the Academy area from the 4046 pixels and give you the frame (I believe the extraction becomes 3858, but I am not at work right now and don't remember the exact number off the top of my head) or we give you the entire frame and let your post people crop as they may. If you like what you see you shoot with those lenses and that ground glass for your show. However, we also have purchased a number of re-barreled and PL mounted still camera lenses (Leica, Zeiss, etc) like we use in Vista-Vision VFX photography that DO cover the entire range of the sensor. Then you get a ground glass that matches your chosen aspect ratio, but covers the full 2:1 sensor size and you shoot with that. Honestly, I never expected this to create this much controversy. Again, it is really up to personal taste: the Cooke s4 series have the smallest coverage (indeed they fall off RIGHT at Academy) but they are such beautiful lenses with such a 'warm' and wonderful look that many people (including my team) really like to shoot with them. On the other side the Leica's are incredible lenses as well; they cover the entire sensor, they are very sharp and they have a unique look that is hard to beat. We tested the Arri Master Primes and we really liked them too, so we also ordered some sets of those and they seem to voer the entire sensor as well. Indeed it really isn't a question of 'resolution' but one of how an entire imaging system combines to create a look that works (or does not work) for your project. 3. We have a number of very high level image processing algorithms for color reconstruction working on the Bayer data. However the last time I even uttered the word 'algorithm' in public I was misquoted on the internet and for a year I had to deal with fall-out and totally ignorant BS. So I am going to leave it at this: if you want to know about our image processing software please go to the DALSA website and read some of the white papers about our imaging kernel and how the algorithms reconstruct color from a Bayer pattern. If you wish to know more contact me privately. 4. Coupled with the issue of 'resolution' is that of 'color depth.' The Origin captures data in 16 bit linear space. We claim 11+ stops of dynamic range, but again please come in and test it for yourself. I know what I have seen come out of the Origin, but you should test for yourself. One point I do wish to make is this: once rendered the 'native' space we like to deliver the imagery in is a 16 bit High Dynamic Range SMPTE DPX file in un-mapped color space. With that format you have the entire 65,536 DN value range with no gamma applied as a starting point. This gives the colorist and VFX people the most 'meat' to work with in post. However, we learned the hard way that 95% of the people we give Origin data to simply flip out when they see unmapped HDRI imagery. Visual effects people who have been dealing with HDRI and film scans get it immediately, but most people start to have tantrums: "I can't see anything, its all dark!" I think you may be starting to see why we are so careful about what we 'say' about resolution. More to the point, you say the following: "Basically, it was proven to me that some of your claims were not true." Ok, here we go, sure I'll take the bait: what 'claims' were proven not to be true and who 'basically' proved that "some of our claims were not true?" Please be more specific, this is just more internet posturing if we leave it as it stands. We can start a useless flame war or we can get to the bottom of it now. You choose. Let me ask this another way. What do you think the technical people at Arriflex and Panavision claim the 'resolution' of the D-20 and Genesis are? I have seen both of those tools up close and I will say without question that they are both excellent cameras; truly remarkable pieces of engineering. I have the utmost respect for both of their tech teams as well. Now, do you think they would say that the 'resolution' of their respective cameras was 1920x1080 just because they are currently recording out to HDCAM-SR, or indeed must we look deeper at the underlying sensor technology? Soon both of those cameras will also support recording DATA directly out of the pipe (as we do at DALSA), and we will see 'resolution' based more on the native 'resolution' of their sensors. Let's put this another way: what do you think PIXAR considers the 'resolution' of MONSTERS, INC? We all know that PIXAR renders their material at a bit less than HD, but because they have no "imaging system" to go through (no lenses, film-stocks, printing, etc) they end up with imagery so sharp that in many cases they have to soften it before film-out. What would the 'resolution' of imagery coming out of RENDERMAN at 1600x900 be? Alan Lasky DALSA Digital Cinema
  3. Thanks for your response, David. If I came off a bit harsh it is because this is getting very irritating. As I am sure you and Mike are aware, the "Bayer resolution issue" is FAR MORE COMPLICATED than can be solved using a "multiply by (X)" equation. I have spent enough time with DALSA's sensor design / fabrication team to understand that for me to make ANY comments about that would be ridiculous. I know enough to keep my mouth shut about issues that require specialized knowledge of CCD design, digital/analog signal processing, and high level optics. This is why I want to distill these issues down to a more manageable level such as: please come and shoot some pictures. That may seem overly simplistic, and perhpas it is. However it is not possible (nor realistic) for me to ask potential Origin users to read Dr. Albert Theuwissen's book, "Solid-State Imaging with Charge-Coupled Devices" in order to understand the complexity of the 4K bayer issue. Yet, constantly I hear people off the street say: "The Origin is not 4K, bayer sensors throw away half the resolution...I read it on the internet." Inevitably that ends up as: "I want a discount for the missing 2K," or some such inane BS. So, you can understand why lately I am close to a shooting rampage. This tendancy to over-simplify very complex technical matters on forums like this one makes it difficult for individuals to make informed decisions. I appreciate what you are suggesting in your post, and in fact we try not to "say" anything about resolution at all anymore. So many factors influence system MTF that it is silly to even start. Again, we just want people to come in and test for themselves without any preconceptions. I do not believe that is too much to ask of the professional community. By all means people should post all they want and whatever they want, but oversimplification tends to lead to increased complexity in the long run. I am sure Donald Rumsfled would attest to that right now. ;-) Alan Lasky DALSA Digital Cinema
  4. [. Anyone have an opinions on the 4k vertical resolution Dalsa Origin?] I will not get involved in the "Film vs. Digital" discussion, it is boring and sort of irrelevant. However let me invite you out to DALSA to test the Origin. Please ignore the "serial internet posters" and all the discussions of "real 4K, Bayer Patterns, etc." I know EXACTLY who has shot with our camera and who is just spouting off to look intelligent on internet forums. If you can not make it to our facility please tell me a test scene you would like me to shoot and I would happy to shoot it and send you the frames on a DVD-ROM or some other suitable media. If you can have someone local check our shooting procedure, all the better. We have absolutely nothing to hide and in fact we would much rather YOU decide for YOURSELF on the merits of the Origin, not have a decision made for you by people who have never shot a frame with it. Indeed if you like the Origin, cool...come and shoot some stuff with it. If not shoot with film, or HD, or DV, or PixelVision, or whatever you want. I have seen great material come out of all those formats. Just remember to check the facts for yourself. Because I post something in an internet forum does not make it true, nor does a forum of self appointed "experts" speak for the technology itself. Alan Lasky DALSA Digital Cinema alan.lasky@dalsa.com
  5. Remember to ask: "What is the pixel aspect ratio?"
×
×
  • Create New...