jan von krogh

Hello David, Sony HDCAM Cameras are 1920x1080, if you use HD-SDI out it is 4:2:2 1920x1080 on the 900 to be precise. The 1440 are on tape as Y is at 3, not at 4. for chromakeying HD-SDI out will give you better results then using tape. for cinematic release, if feasible, i would recommend 900 + hd-sdi out. as then it is 1920x1080 (2 Million Pixels) for the Sony vs 1280x720 (1 Million Pixels) on the Varicam.

even if we certainly won´t replace our making-of Canon 5D by the red - i overheard several talks of RED-buyers, especially indy-dops, who intend to do so at IBC 2006. 1) to buy 2 cams is more expensive 2) to carry 2 cams is heavier than one - and the 3.1 kg red has to be brought on set anyhow. also, taking stills through cookes, zeiss, angenieux isn´t to bad either.

The sensor is 12 Megapixel - not 9. 30% higher than you assume. resolution is 4900x2580. on S35 AR it will be ~4520x2540, a bit higher than 4K. it has 12 millions readout pixels - which are converted to RGB. add the 30% higher resolution compared to your assumed 9MP and there you go. Also it is not only 16 uncompressed to store, some dozens bytes to add, which go into the LUT :) a) the oversampling of the sensor makes sense in order to compensate the given resolution reduction when debayering a CMOS-basing photographed image. B) the files are not huge. that is 4k biz as usual - pretty common in top-end cinematography since some years. i know most of 35mm and digital releases are done 2k today, however: even if you dont use 4K for your release, but go for a typical theatrical 2K release, it gives you many important advantages aquiring and postproducing in 4k. Here a some. - pan & scan: with 1080p & 2K, be it 35mm or cinealta or whatever, you dont want to enlarge or pan your image. - noise : you can push the borders in DI & colortiming/grading quite a bit further in 4k - when noise begin to show up slightly in 4k, your downrezzed 2K will not show it, or at least much weaker. - postproduction & VFX: for pulling keys, tracking/stabilizing etc the higher resolution is a blessing. Also, VFX assistants can be a little bit less tight when masking, rotoscoping etc. - sidenotes: print: yes, i know this might sound bizarre, but certain dops will use RED as digital still SLR camera as well, and 4K is useful for printing larger sizes. furthermore, with the optional redcode wavelet datareduction, you only need ~30MBytes/sec for 4k datareduced, and the higher resolution makes the datareduction, if one wants to use it, quite useable for cinematic release. however, we will have to push the footage through the DI workflow first in order to understand how much the datareduction will reduce colorgrading etc. On cinealta we typically shoot a mix - uncompressed 10bit to disk for rather comples postprodution shots, to tape for "usual" shots. 24bit is = 8bit/channel*3, the images from david stump are 16bit/channel + lut. the final will "only" be 12, not 16 bit. the 16bit a there as REDCODE isn´t available yet, and 16bit tif is common. also, the images are not only 4K, but 2540+. 4900x2540 from the red frankie protoype. 4540x2540 will be the 4K in S35 from the serial red one. the images are coming from the uncharacterized sensor, no sharpening at all, no colorcompensation etc. also the charts contain syncing problems the sensor was misaligned often etc. red however is ok with having the prototype shots published.

off topic from the bolex we were, just as annotation/sidenote. very partial, the full list is ~4x times the size, but i don´t want to put so much hdcam into the bolex thread.... shot on HDCAM ABC According to Jim Conviction George Lopez Hope and Faith Hot Properties Rodney The Nightstalker What About Brian? CBS Still Standing Yes Dear Fox (Fall) Arrested Development The Bernie Mac Show The War At Home Fox (Jan 06) The Bernie Mac Show The Loop The War At Home FX Rescue Me NBC Joey The Office Sci Fi Channel Andromeda Stargate Battlestar Galactica (one of my all time favorites btw) Showtime Huff The Fat Actress The L Word UPN Network All of Us Cuts Eve Girlfriends Half and Half Love Inc. One on One WB Network Just Legal Living with Fran Reba Related Twins What I Like About You Supernatural BBC The Chase Bleak House The green grass RAI Coast Guard

so instead we are touting financial states and payments by red to/of ASC members... :)

my bad - they are both 35 II B. i indeed thought the 35 II B & C were called BL II B & C, and the later then 35BL & BL4 -sorry, it are the non-syncsound non-blimp. from the 2 units of the 35 II B, one will be sold >jan 07, the other one -might- be modified with http://www.intervalometers.com/rev/arri/rev-arri2.stm and stay for special purposes shooting or will also be sold. both haven´t been seen much use since ~2001/2. However added new 12V powercells set for the motor in august 06 and both are in fully working order. last maintenance was 04. the camera tech (who *ahem* different from <me> *ahem* seems to know every single arri model) will prepare the offer with serialnr., photos, etc. ps. i wanted to add the list of mags, motors, mount-adapters etc, but after this first bummer i suppose i will better have the tech make the list.

no. taken into consideration his leading roles in dozens of A-budgets and his outstanding productivity (average 2 fullfeatures a year for two decades....) - pure guestimation. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0003432/

seems that this differentiates you from david stump. who, btw, would have no fiscal problem to retire to the bahamas without needing money from 3hrd parties anyhow.

SCNR... for the real feeling: also add noise, hiss and bumps to the audio, and reduce the dynamic headroom in order to get the classical analogue 33LP experience. furthermore, its recommendable to mix the same level on all 5.1 audio channels - this additionally heightens the classical experience as its so much closer to mono or at least dolby sr instead of DD. since when has noise become evil? a good signal/noise ratio (some heretic people dare to measure this in f-stops, the dynamic distance from signal to noise) was never important anyhow.

you have no idea how copies are done today. it became worse. your mom doesnt know about film industry. almost, but dont thell fincher, lucas, cameron, jeunet, rodriguey & tarantino, altmann etc. they might shoot their next movies on 1080p if they fid out. <sigh> youve got an F.

indeed, and iwe would give the vison II 30% more resolution over its precessors - 35mm kodak vision would be almost in the class of 1080p, correct? a sidenote, you are posting in the RED forum here. so, let me ask this question: how much would the vison II need to improve to have the reds 4k resolution? or 2540p? or, to make the question more precise: so, resolution, as film is inferior there, isnt the point?

hmm, maybe sony wants to empty their stocks before introducing the NG22? dont forget, panavision genesis is just the oems name for the sony cam. otoh, they might have work for anothher 18 cameras? aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalright. now its getting funny. cinealta is at >600 amd you understand that there is no thing like ASA in the digital world?

digital movie might be the better word instead of film. how generous you are. dont speculate. as mr. boddington tried to explain, its a <1k chromatic resolution camera, as you said, chemical film looks more sculpet (or 3d or whatever) etcc. so it is completly SURE that anyone who has his mind wont ever use such a digital camera. that is why fincher shot his next movie after fight club on chemical! did he? btw mr. jacoby, are you booked or still interested in assistance jobs? if so, you certainly know where you wouldnt find work. on the other hand, i might have some cheapo 35mm arris on sale soon - isnt that what you are looking for?

ah, i forgot to mention - if red confirms the delivery date, we will have 1 or 2 arri bl overstock here. i would sell the BL IIcs for 1500/2500 and the BL IIbs for 1250/2000. interested buddy?

certainly not. they are still waiting for your approval, mr. jacoby, yeah, they are stupid.... also, different from young mr. jacoby here, these people have so much time to waste... hey mr. jacoby did you .ever. had 17.500 spare so far? for two cams that would be 35.000?

zea, peter jackson and david fincher should watch this thread :) as well as warner bros. amazing, so may insights never told in the public before....

because red isnt able to design a 35mm size sensor, it is important. or something like this. let them fade into vanity.

i agree. the D20 will be, if i might quote you "ever willl be sold", inferior to red in - resolution - sensor quality (hey, impressive what 4 years in rd bring you....*) framerates, etc... so i suggest that you stay with the D20, mr. jacoby. why? ah, i see. arri will buy oakley or sony. wow. a feeling. i am impressed. do you know that mr. jannard actually has a camera? or do you someone at arri munich? maybe the reception? mr. jacopy, i do realize that you never bought arri equipment which wasnt used. let me tell you, as an arri customer - armchair ceos like yourself without the necessary budget arent to welcome at arri.

FYI: http://www.carmikedigital.com/ http://www.dcimovies.com/

yes, they always said that one will probably need the redarray for 60p4k. however, i suppose that >90% of the movies will of 07 & 08 will be 1080p or 2k anyhow, so i hope that the 120p @2k onboard will become real. anyhow, red did not raise any hopes for that, seems we will have to rely to the array there as well. 120p, ultrawideangle, digital + steadycam are a killler combination for action... independent of image quality i find the idea of writing a DVD worth of storagae within 3-4 seconds amusing....now if i could watch and memorize movies at that speed :)

I won´t even start to discuss your hobbyist knowledge level of modern sensor design, advanced de-bayer algos etc. when someone calls 12 Megapixel sensor 2k, i wouldn´t even know where to start. however, as you reference 35mm film so often, let me point out this link from another thread: http://www.etconsult.com/papers/Technical%...0Resolution.pdf have fun.

HDCAM, HDCAM SR, 1080p, 2K, 4k... our hdcams have been working quite often in the recent 4 years or so. btw- we invest in gear if we can earn it back in 24 months. you are not familar with the terms of "good enough" or "market saturation", would you? sadly yes, thats one of the points which make me a little bit sad about red - however i won´t complain, having several cinealta gears more than doubled inhouse. yes, ours too - but i suppose i will put them on the classified here soon. when reds workflow has been proven inhouse i might keep one - but i am not sure if i will. you will get a special price from us anyhow -if interested - as i know that you will be die hard film whatever comes and so my good arris (memories.....) will be looked after.

to be honest, mr. mullen, my knowing about the d20 is quite different. arri wasn´t eager to develop a camera which has dozens of obstacles in your worklow and is inferior for rental and for buyers - the millions euro of european R&d subsiding they took together with fraunhofer (they are the heart of the D20 sensor design) however was something they certainly wanted. also, i suppose, that phantom and sony, weinberger and GV, nowadays red & si demonstrated since 1999 not only that there is a much larger market for digital than chemical cameras - and that there is no need to have angry customers. i for my part own sony cinealta cams, yes they will be devalued a bit by red, no, i am not angry. did they shoot cool movies, yes, did i expect them to last forever (like my arri IIc): no, not at all. also, as a german, i am really sad that arri meanwhile has spent almost a decade regarding digital cameras and didn´t take the lead. exactly - the prototypesyndrom as its nicknamed here in germany. a real disease of german mid-scale local champions. instead of taking the market, they leave the door 180° open - and now there is red. yes - and don´t forget services. arri isn´t depending on camera sales. i will never forget when i asked my buddies who work at arris management: "how much did you rent out to jackson". response: "don´t know exactly, but it was over 12 tons...". i know, i know - my grandmother was working at arri in the 30ies, and my family has, lets say, rather emotional connections to that company. And that is exactly why i am so concerned about them. there is no arnold richter anymore at arri, same as no pierre angenieux is observing things... i don´t speculate if it would do them good to be stocklisted, but one thing is for sure - arri missed the opurtunity to become market leader for the new era of cinematography - the digital one. instead of putting r&d to the 416 (a cool cam btw) and the 235 (a even cooler cam IMHO) they better would have built a ARRI D10 years ago - something that i and many other german productions & rentals were asking for since years. now instead red built something like a ARRI D30, but in the formfactor of the D10, and it even has ARRI PL-mounts... i don´t know if you have the same saying in the US, but in germany we say "the cat is out of the bag" - that means that it is easier to bringt the toothpaste out of the tube than to bring it back. i have to admit that i never exactly understood dalsas intention. however, they have the same oldschool business-model which now has been made obsolete. IF red is really about to ship >1000 cameras within the next 120 days (they announced so), the camera market will never be the same as before. be it rental or whatever. good luck to any manufacturer with a 4k digital >30.000. for my part - i am usually mostly doing exec & line producer when i produce - i am often involved into camera & workflow decisions and i know that the #1 rule is, has been and will be: bring the money to the audiences eye. after the release of red i will be highly sceptical to use chemical cameras, once red workflow has been proven in house. however, i am quite young (35) and i suppose that many of the grandmaster will follow their proven path of wisdom for at least one decade of now - and that means optochemical production instead of digital - why not. but below these structures i see a gem of not only camera culture but, heck, yeah i admit it, one of the few remaining camera companys who *really* stand for film history missing their chance to fight back. and they had the chance to open the fight. however, mr. jannard will +if successfull+ demonstrate that arts & engineering can blend into at deadly good product even in our days of .com hypes :) p.s. lenses will be going up, thats for sure.... i certainly hope so - but i am afraid that they will, or even have, missed the call. look at leica, once an icon of german camera manufacturing - they did the same mistakes as arri is doing right now, they missed the digital era. or agfa, besides kodak once one of the mayor player in international filmstock production. they both have been sold after going out of funds - because they weren´fit & fast enough for the digital transition.

flashcards single drive (with datareduction) raids (uncompressed) whatever you use (through HD-SDI)

i agree.