Robert Houllahan
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Posts posted by Robert Houllahan
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Anyone using these lenses?
Is there a real appreciable difference in sharpness and contrast as compared to Nikon AIS lenses?
Good question I would like to know as well, I would assume in some cases the Zeiss lenses would be faster/sharper, etc. Anyone know what lenses are available?
-Rob-
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Actually, a 17" MacBook Pro (which has a good GPU) connected via DVI to the LCD "grade" monitor () would probably be plenty enough for on-set and even in-house color grading (ProRes 422 is specifically designed for this kind of stuff). And with an external control interface it would probably not be very far from an ideal "movable grade" studio (previously unheard of).
Remember that Final Touch (which Color is based on) paired with a control-surface had gotten very nice reviews from colorists used to DaVinci systems. The downside was the amount of bugs and the somewhat poor integration with Final Cut Pro. Some found that UI a bit weird as well (doesn't look like Apple has changed much there yet, perhaps Color 2 at next NAB).
This is true but probably only for a primary grade as soon as you try to apply anything like a multiple grade or windows the laptop is going to crawl. A LCD grading monitor is $5k and up and all are 8 bit devices but I guess people are starting to use them for grading work.
I think people have had mixed feelings about Final Touch beyond just the bugs, i.e. weird "rooms" interface and non realtime performance in complex grades (a issue with all software cc systems) but a DaVinci 2K is a bit more money :lol: than this setup even with a properly configured system.
This is just my opinion but I think that on set grading is a ridiculously stupid idea.
-Rob-
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According to apple you can't run Color on a Macbook Pro 15" because of the monitor. 17" should be fine but it would be intresting too see some actula test results. Mac Pro is a bit out of my budget...Still the news are great and I'll seriously have to think about upgrading.
BTW: can you buy the actual Final Touch control table separate for Color? I didn't notice anything about it in the apple pages.
You can run the Tangent panels or JLCooper panels with Color as a control surface the JL Copper is the cheapo around $5k and the tangent panels will run you $20k or so for all 4, still not too bad. Figure $50k for a system, panels, storage, and some kind of low end "grading" monitor like that new JVC lcd ($5K) not that I entirely believe in LCD for this task. There are some good Lcos projectors but bulb falloff is a problem and there are now 1080p plasmas which might be a choice if you can calibrate them. I think running a Color Correction suite on a laptop is going to be a no go as there is really not the computing horsepower for the task.
-Rob-
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The fact of the matter is that 720p or even 1080p may be okay for todays theatres considering that by the time a 35mm print goes through generational losses and is projected you are only going to see 700 lines of resolution.
Last Wednesday I went to a nice private pre-show of Mike Corrente's new anamorphic 35mm film "Brooklyn Rules" this was a wet gate answer print (No Di) on a nice big screen and a very fresh print. I have to say that there is something soo much more to a good 35mm print than the supposed 700 lines of resolution, which is a somewhat arbitrary number to me. Every 1080p film I have ever seen in 35mm print form has looked soft.
-Rob-
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And talent? And the ability to actually produce a deliverable element? And the know-how as to how to set up that monitor/projector for the type of deliverable you're actually producing?
Apple would like everyone to believe that buying $1000 software makes you an editor. Or a sound editor. Or, now, a colorist. Hopefully, enough people still understand and at least somewhat respect the notion of talent and experience. I guess we'll find out.
Come on Mike don't you know by now that computers make the need for talent completely irrelevant obviously guys like Brad and Bob who work here who have been hand timing prints for 30 years are totally covered by the 14 preset "big feature" film looks built into the software. Everyone can now have a "Layer Cake Bad DI" and have it for free, which may be more than it's worth.
Furthermore you clearly have not heard of the new calibration standard which all new grading sets are precisely set to these days, that is the "Best Buy Showroom floor sell what is in stock or has a spiff standard" which is clearly superior to any so called fancy adjustments which are just hype.
:D :D :blink: :( :angry:
-Rob-
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From what I've heard about Final Touch and Silicon Color, the company consisted basically of five guys undertaking an ambitious project to bring high end color grading from a $100,000 system down to $10,000. From what I've heard its a great system built on a solid foundation, but was plagued with bugs. Because the development team was basically five people that did not have the sheer number of software programmers to test and debug all of the code as quickly as a larger company.
I would imagine Apple has been working with Silicon Color on Final Touch long before the purchase was publicly announced. Apple would have the resources to leverage a larger team of software programmers to polish up Final Touch for the transition into Color.
Again it's certainly interesting and essentially makes 2K grading "free" Ha ha until you buy hardware, control surfaces and a Monitor/projector et all but the new Apple suite looks pretty crazy and a nice 8 core mac pro is not soo. much considering.
-Rob-
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Saw this, very interesting and obviously very cheap. I have not heard all of the best things about Final Touch in the past but maybe it's improved, and now that it's basically free it does make it more attractive doesn't it?
-Rob-
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(whoops- Robert beat me to the punch- that's a great idea about checking the door!)
BTW I have the same rig in a Nikkor mount, very happy with my NCS motor, just picked it up 2 weeks ago.
-Rob-
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I sent my Eyemo and Revolution intervalometer out with a friend (a popular grip in town) to a remote fire tower in Wisconsin where he's working this week, and although he's loaded it many times before, this time he's having a problem getting the upper feed sprocket to engage the film. He's tried it with some old neg I had and despite having it properly threaded and getting the cover to fit (indicating that the pressure plate release has been re-engaged properly) the film stops moving after 2 frames have fed, and the upper loop is lost. The upper sprocket is turning, he says, but from what he can see, the perfs are not engaged onto the sprocket. When the pressure plate release is engaged, he says that both sprockets seem to move the same distance to get into place for operation. it's all very confusing... when I examine a second Eyemo here, it seems impossible that he is having this problem.
Anyone ever experience anything like this? I wish I could transport myself to Northern Wisconsin for a few minutes to look at it for myself.
Sounds to me like the pressure plate slide is not fully engaged and possibly there is something (a rogue perf or two?) stuck in the way keeping the mechanism from sliding all the way forward. The door will not go on unless the slide is all the way forwards as it has a cam on it which engages a tapered piece on the far end of the slide mechanism (towards where the 400' mag goes) did he check and make sure the framerate selector is all the way to 48fps? and if he has a hand crank can he freely hand crank the camera?
Best guess is that if the door will not go on the slide is not all the way engaged.
-Rob-
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I can't speak for the 50, but one of the first things I bought were 2 O'connor 100s one of which came from Panavision. This heads are simply the best. Make sure there are no leaks in the one you're looking at, if so the price drops dramatically because the O'connors are expensive to re-build. B)
The 50 and 100 are good basic heads with the ability to smoothly carry a heavier camera and are pretty bullet proof. O'Connor does have replacement parts and they can be rebuilt. I have a 50D with Peter Lisand sticks I use with my Aaton when I do not have a rental. If you have not ever used a newer head like a 2575 etc then you don't know what you are missing, if you have the older heads are still ok too.
-rob-
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For those who would need to convert 18 Frames / Second Film onto Telecine Video, a 3:3:3:2:3:3:3:2:3 Pulldown will fulfil 25 f/s Video, and a 3:3:4 Pulldown will fill 30 f/s Video.
As I posted in the Super8 thread any modern telecine (not chain :( ) can run the film at a desired crystal locked framerate and fit that framerate onto the output video format. For example a film run framerate of 13.987 fps can run to 25i, 30i, 24p and there will be no interlace issues and no jitter just clean images at the SDI output of the telecine/color corrector.
This process is automatic and happens in the framestore of the telecine this part is a computer essentially which builds the frame of video from the CRT/Photocells in flying spot or the CCD array in a CCD machine. The framestore is locked to a sync generator (PAL, NTSC, Tri-Level HD) and takes a frame pulse from the Digital Servo so it "knows" the desired output framerate and the rate at which pictures are being scanned from the imaging head in the telecine.
-Rob "knows too much about telecines" Houllahan-
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Use their price quote on their website. For 1,200' of 16mm it is more like .10 frame. Maybe .02 frame if you scan 1,000,00 feet. :angry: :angry:
Whoops, last time we did something with them was a sizable 35mm job and the scan was something like $0.02/frame.
Sorry.
Try National in Boston or Flying spot in Seattle both have Thompson Shadow telecines and both go to hard disk for a reasonable price.
www.nationalboston.com
www.fsft.com
-Rob-
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Rob
What's the conversion rate exactly? 20 fps translates to 30 easily: every third frame is made up of a field of the two adjacent frames. When transferring 24fps to video it occurs every 4th frame. what is the relationship between the film frames and video frames if the film runs at 18 fps.
Rick
I just looked at the metaspeed control panel on my Rank #1 and it has 17.946 fps (18 -0.1% ?) amongst others I have punched in like 2fps and 12fps. I have a client in NYC who had some films shot at 5 fps and we transfered them to 29.97 video at 5fps.
Contrary to what may be popular belief there is no cadence adjustment on any telecine I know of and I have experience with all types of Flying spot and Ccd machines. The framestore in the telecine accepts the framerate from the digital servo and fits the framerate selected to the desired output framerate.
I will have to ask one of the engineers I know if there is a better explanation of how the framestore on various Telecine systems handle off framerate cadence, like 5fps or 18fps. I generally figure that for the $600k to $2M that a new telecine costs some smart folks figured this out right,
The 5fps (4.993 fps) transfer looks great, no stuttering or interlace issues just clean video.
-Rob-
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with 18 vs 24 because 18fps is transferred to video at 20 fps so there is a speed change.
Any Rank or Thompson telecine with a digital servo (metaspeed, etc.) can transfer 18fps at 18fps to 29.97 or 25 frame SD video.
Super8 rocks, enjoy.
-Rob-
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I would recommend pixelharvest.com in LA they will give you a real pin-registered 2K scan with a IR pass on disk for $0.02 per frame or so. Skip video all together and go straight to data. Figure around $350 for the scan, we have sent them 35mm we processed for a NY client but they do 16mm as well.
-Rob-
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Today, the most cost effective way to "blow up" Super-8 negative would be to do a HD digital transfer, and then a 35mm "film out" onto intermediate film to make the 35mm printing negative. Some labs may still offer Super-8 optical blow ups, but not many.
We processed a large run of super8 color negative late last year, around 200 rolls, that went on a Spirit in NY to D-5 I heard that they were very happy. There was also that picture in europe done to 2k on the spirit.
Still there is something about an optical print, Rob Todd at Emerson had a bunch of K40 he optically blew up to 16 on a JK and we processed and printed it for him and I thought it was special looking.
-Rob-
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rob,
Steve over at National told me that they can handle 2 perf, or so says the manual.
I knew the servos, etc. in any newer TK (thompson, cintel) would be able to do this, the rest is masking/sizing for the video format. National has the same Keylink that we do and it needs to be upgraded for 2-perf according to Carter at Trading Post the North American dealer. JP at aaton would want his keycode reader to read properly for all of his camera's.
I saw a very nice Kinor modified for 2-perf by Aranda film on ebay a few months back looked really nice around $20k was the asking. There have been some cheap-ish Moviecam's on there recently as well, seems like another good candidate.
I want to substitute 2-perf for my Aaton on the next picture I shoot. Same mag run times (ish) 35mil quality and no real protection for video I love it.
-Rob-
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Hi,
A bad idea as the film may well be unsteady when transfered this way.
Stephen
I had a similar discussion about this on the Tig and this is certainly a questionable area in the idea of a 2 at a time scan even on a pin registered scanner like a Northlight or Arri. I guess tests would have to be done.
-Rob-
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Arri just announced the availability of 2-perf movements this year, and the Aaton Penelope has yet to be released, and Multivision 235 is in Australia... so basically the 2-perf rental market in Los Angeles is still dead more or less. But I have hopes that it will soon be an option.
I am interested in supporting this format, I talked to the Aaton rep in Canada who is in charge of the Keylink product about upgrading our 2 systems to read 2-perf keycode properly supposedly it is a software upgrade for most versions of the keylink system.
For dailies I believe the Metaspeed servo on a Cintel system can be programmed to properly transport 2 perf for edit dailies. I think Spirit and Shadow TK's can run 2 perf as again it is a program in the digital servo.
I do not know entirely about finish scanning but it has been suggested that you would do a 4perf scan to 4K on something like a Northlight and split the frames in post, this effectively doubles scan speed.....
-Rob-
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I think the average is going to be from $250/min to about $450/min on real Cine recorders and this depends on how long a job it is (running time) and as Dominic said this will depend on the source material.
We have been shooting 30 sec spots to both 1.85 and 2.35 with one print each for around $1k on a Solitaire Cine3 and I have a few 20min jobs coming up. I would not want to shoot a long form show on a slow recorder like this but image quality is good.
I would think that facilities in LA would sell off the downtime on a arri or Celco recorder more reasonably and you might get a deal if you call around.
-Rob-
I was also going to say that I get a call from time to time from 16mm filmmakers asking for video to 16 and I generally tell people to shoot a LCD monitor with a camera, many titles are done this way. There are several companies out there starting to make panel based film recorders, Kinetta for example.
-Rob-
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the wet gate system does use a fluid to fill in the scratches. im thinking its one of those very environmentaly unfriendly kinda liquids too, i dont remember what it is but more information can be gathered by googling.
as for home telecine of negative, its a lot more complicated than it seems. its not as simple as using a reverse function in software or a camera. ive been looking into it for a bit now. theres a website out there that shows you how to convert a cheap eumig super8 projector into a single frame grabbing telecine machine. its really quite simple. the problem is the images wont be that steady compared to doing it on pro telecine equipment. you need a pin registered system for that.
The fluid is Perchlorethylene, Mmmm tasty. Used to be Tri-Chlor but that is now banned....
A wet gate will only really fill scratch problems on the film base, if there is an emulsion scratch it will still show up. Color negative film is allot softer than reversal films, running it in a Projection based system will invariably scratch it. That said color negative super8 when shot with a properly running camera and processed with attention to detail can be very clean and scratch free.
Modern Telecine systems are generally not pin registered (Cintel "rank" flying spot and Thompson Spirit and Shadow) they do have very complicated and high precision capstan drive mechanisms which are generally rock steady down to 0.01 fps and are gentle on the film they are transporting.
You could get good results with a slide scanner which had been modified for continuous film but you would be waiting a VERY VERY long time to scan a 50' Super8 cartridge.
-Rob-
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Reverse telecine is indeed transferring electronic images onto film.
It is invariably more expensive than telecine transfers. But you need to be specific as there are differnet processes, depending on whether you are transferring from video (SD or HD) to film, or from data to film: and whether it's a laser recorder, a CRT recorder, or an older machine like a kinescope: or simply a film camera pointed at a monitor.
I think the average is going to be from $250/min to about $450/min on real Cine recorders and this depends on how long a job it is (running time) and as Dominic said this will depend on the source material.
We have been shooting 30 sec spots to both 1.85 and 2.35 with one print each for around $1k on a Solitaire Cine3 and I have a few 20min jobs coming up. I would not want to shoot a long form show on a slow recorder like this but image quality is good.
I would think that facilities in LA would sell off the downtime on a arri or Celco recorder more reasonably and you might get a deal if you call around.
-Rob-
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It was suggested to me that if I rephotograph my exposed, processed Super-8 color negative film onto interpositive stock (using an optical printer), I could have a print made of the film. Is this is accurate?
You could possibly do this, however I would suggest going to Andec film in Germany and having them do a Super8 wet gate contact print and then optically blowing up (the super8 positive) to 16mm or 35mm InterNegative stock to make the prints. I think you may have a tough time setting the lights on the color negative to IP and there will be a higher chance of damaging the original.
I think it's andecfilm.de as far as I know they are the only people who do Super8 contact printing, but maybe Interformat in Ca. does it as well
-Rob-
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I'm shooting a 16mm silent B&W short film and we're finishing up next weekend. I was wondering if there was a lab that would develop my film, and telecine the footage onto miniDv for a discounted price. We're sending about 4 rolls of 100 foot Trix 160speed film and 2 rolls of 100 foot plusX 100 speed film, making 600 feet total. I've never used a telecine lab before because we have a telecine at school, but to be honest it looks pretty terrible, and I want a good digital copy of this most recent film. Student discounts appreciated.
Thanks in advance!
Give us a call
www.cinelab.com
-Rob-
Fuji Reala 500D
in Lighting for Film & Video
Posted
We did a process and dailies job last year on an indie feature that they shot entirely with the 500D in Super16, I thought that was a strange choice, especially all the interiors, but i thought it mostly looked good allot like 7277.
-rob-