Jim Simon

See, I would not have added the T sound.

The general rule of thumb I've been reading is shoot 24P if your final product is video, and 24PA if you're final product is film - you know, actual celluloid run through a projector.

Are you sure? One of the ads on Discovery claimed it was the first documentary of it's type to be filmed entirely in HD.

I have access to some empty 200' carts. Anyone know where I might get them filled?

So I was right. Now I have to unlearn something.

Thank you Douglas. My viewpoint remains unchanged, however. I still feel that all Super 8 sound equipment should have had crystal sync built in, right from the factory, most especially those offered to the "amateur" filmmaker (as opposed to the "home movie" maker.) People can argue that if they like, but since it's gonna cost me $500 to correct the problem, it's unlikely my mind will be swayed.

I don't know about that. The feature set indicates that the manufacturers saw a more professional market than just "home movies" for cameras such as the Canon 1014 XL-S, the Nizo 6080, and the Beaulieu 6008 and up. Besides, some of the Beaulieu's in this class did come with crystal sync out of the factory. I just wish they all had.

Thanks a lot guys. I have to say I'm surprised that sound cameras will hold their speed for such short times. I really didn't expect it to be an issue with less than three minutes filming time per cart. Principal photography is tentatively scheduled for October. I think I should probably budget for a crystal mod.

I actually thought Chinon was a Japanese company. Well, this is my one new thing learned for today.

Thanks Rick. I will be shooting at 24fps. My takes are often determined by the script, and some will unavoidably be longer than others. I have another post going about acquiring refilled 200' carts because the 50' carts may not hold hold some of the scenes. A tail slate is something I hadn't thought of. Thanks for the suggestion. For this project, ADR really is impractical. So live dialog will end up in the final cut. May I ask, what cameras have you used, and how far off was the sync when editing?

I don't know. I've not seen the output from a "good quality 2K camera" first hand. But aren't most Hollywood features using DI in post these days? They still look like film to me even after such processing.

It's true for Super 8 mag striped film. The sound ran 20 frames offset from the picture. This was done because the sound stripe had to move over the playback head at a constant speed, while the frame needed to pause briefly in front of the lens for projection. The offset allowed this to occur.

I kind of thought that was at the very heart of the conversation. I myself have been looking forward to the ability to shoot a 35mm feature without the expense of 35mm film. I was hoping the Red camera might make that possible. Given that it still does look like video, I'm not so sure it will fill that expected need. It may fill other needs fine, but I get the sense that a lot of folks will be disappointed that it doesn't fill the "film replacement" need.

So no one else has any experience shooting sound with a good Super 8 camera that hasn't been crystal sync modified?

How so? From a resolution and color standpoint, 35mm is still superior to anything else. And I think the comment "it doesn't look like film" in this case refers more to the overall "soap opera" look of video, including the red camera, than to the technical aspects.

Not sure I agree with him completely. While the lens used to shoot the piece did allow for some nice DoF effects, overall it still looked like HD video. Certainly it didn't look like film.

Great info Terry, Thanks. I'll check out the web site. As an FYI, the raw stock will be telecined to hard drive at the NTSC standard of 29.97 fps for editing. Audio will be recorded as a 16 bit 48 kHz .wav to a hard drive built into the mixer and brought into Premiere for sync and editing. Clapper slates will be used for all shots.

The original title was "Foreign Names - and how to pronounce them". Then I realized that this may not be an American only forum. As there are some German names for lenses and such, I thought "non-English" was the best catch-all.

I suppose it's a matter of viewpoint. I thought $500 to $700 for a 20 year old, used Super 8 camera was excessive. Making it work right (which I still believe Canon should have done in the factory, like Beaulieu did) for an additional $500 ain't no chump change for me. That's kind of why I'm asking about users' experience shooting sync sound with good Super 8 cameras that haven't been modified. Of course, the final determination will come with some actual footage tests with the camera I end up buying. But it can't hurt to get some opinions before hand. So please step up if you have an experience to share.

A little fun topic here. Can anyone shed some light on how to say certain non-english names, like Beaulieu, Chinon, Leicina, Angenieux, etc.

The Film Group will do it for $500, and I thought that was excessive. For $2,000 I could probably go with 16mm. Thanks for sharing, though. Anyone else?

Thanks Alessandro. Anyone else try recording sound using a high end Super 8 without crystal sync modification? How'd it go?

For one reel to MiniDV, Debenham Media Group will do a Rank transfer for $30.

Was the Vision 2 also telecined with a Workprinter? Cause I gotta say it didn't look all that good. I thought you mentioned that the Vision stock was going to use a Rank transfer.

Actually, Flutter is the rapid deviation, Wow is defined as "Slow variation in the pitch of a sound reproduction resulting from variations in the speed of the recording or reproducing equipment." So .08% speed deviation for a cassette ain't that bad. More than 1% for a camera sucks. Can anyone share their experience recording sound without a crystal synced camera? Just trying to get an idea if I should budget for the mod, or if I might possibly get away without.