Annie Wengenroth

Bump....taking offers...

You know what? I'm gonna be bold and say that maybe it's worth just starting out on small jobs as a DP and just shooting, if that's what you want to do. I mean, yeah. If you want to try to "move up" the traditional way on big jobs, then loading is obviously the first step. But if you've already done work as a DP, then maybe you'd be happier continuing to bill yourself that way and just seeing what happens. I say this because I decided in college that I wanted to work as a 1st AC...and when I got out of college, that was exactly what I called myself. And guess what...I worked as a 1st AC. Not on big jobs, per se, but enough work that I've been able to make a reasonably decent living for myself in New York City for almost 4 years. So, if you want to shoot, shoot! I honestly think, 3 years after walking out the door at Arri CSC, that if I'd ended up working on big jobs as a loader, I would've found myself really frustrated and stifled, because I got so used to working on these little jobs as a 1st and sometimes a 2nd. As much as I think the structure of the camera department is there for a reason, I also feel that especially nowadays with so much of the work being digital, there might be more room for you to get out there as a cam op or DP right off the bat. The thing is, if you start out as a loader, it's more likely you'd move up to being a cam op (and the union no longer requires production to hire a separate camera operator; the DP can do it if he/she wants...so your potential for work might be a lot more limited) than a DP. I know a lot more DP's who come up through the lighting department. So that's something to think about too. The OTHER thing to think about is how f*cking hard it is to actually move up in the camera department on big jobs. You have to work consistently with the same crew and they have to like you...it's not like you just magically turn into a B-camera 2nd one day after loading for 3 years. I personally have pretty much decided that ya know, I'm not a union loader, and oh well for that. A commercial here and there would be great, but it seems that over the years, I've carved out more of a niche for myself in the indie world as a 1st and 2nd. So it's different for everyone. And a lot of it comes down to luck. I was singing a different tune a few months ago and there is written evidence of it on this forum. But hell, I'll just throw it out there now...I work as hard as all my little union friends and CSC alumni, and I've gotten so little union work that when it came time to pay dues, I told them I'd rather put my dues on hold because what's the point in paying them hundreds of dollars a quarter if you're not making that money on union jobs? So screw it, I decided to play to my strengths and just keep working with the people I already know and trust in the indie world, doing the things that I feel comfortable with and have developed a rhythm with. And finally, you know, if your heart really lies with shooting, I think it's important to keep that alive by continuing to build your reel...because ACing can really suck the life out of you if you're doing it just to get to something else. If you can strike a balance between working for peanuts as a DP and making the serious money as a loader, then all the power to you...it could be a good combination. Anyway, I'm not trying to scare you off, just trying to offer a realistic perspective on some of this. So, good luck, and I will check out your reel. I have some ideas for music videos and spec commercials myself and it's always good to see other peoples' work for inspiration!

More stuff I don't need, updated! I have: 1. Cine 60 battery belt that doesn't work and is no longer necessary as a door stop. I thought about taking out the cells and turning it into some kind of weird little bondage type belt or something, but it doesn't really fit me that well. So much for that. So, if anybody wants to make me an offer plus shipping to try and do something with it, you're welcome to it. Bonus points if you're in NYC- I can drop it off to you. It plugs in to charge, it just doesn't actually HOLD a charge. Maybe there is hope. 2. TWO follow focus speed cranks. Put one in each side and have a race with your 2nd, I dunno. 3. Arri parts books: SR and BL-3. 4. Moviecam eyepice heater cable for Compact and SL. 5. Fisher 11-pin to 12V male video tap cable for SR cameras..it allows you to run the tap off a 4-pin 12V block/belt by connecting it to the power cable from the 12-volt power port on older video taps. Might be of use to someone...it's not right in front of me so I'd have to double-check that I looked at the connectors right, but PM me if you're specifically interested in it and I can give you details. I'm taking reasonable offers on all of the above. I'll probably put it on Ebay in a couple of weeks but thought I'd post here first. Then... AC stuff: 1. 2 Lens Pens, a random array of lens tissue packs, small blower brush. $25 shipped for the lot? 2. Laser pointer. This is the red one that Film Tools sells and I never use it. It needs a new battery. $40 plus shipping (which shouldn't be much since it is pretty light). 3. Panavision iris rod wrench. $20 plus shipping. If you want, you can make me an offer for all the AC stuff plus shipping cost, but the only thing I'm firm on is the laser pointer.

Okay cool, so next time I show up on set, it'll be in a bikini and tool belt. I mean, heck, why not? ;) If ever I doubted that the film biz is a boys' club.... :sigh:

So I finally got paid for "Grasslands", minus the 25 bucks that the DP did not have at the moment. Close enough. $25 seems a small price to pay to be able to finally reach some closure. Long story short, the DP ended up paying me out of his own money...so now, as he said to me tonight, it's HIS problem. Which I have to admit I feel guilty about...but on the other hand, what was I supposed to do? Anyway, he essentially handed me an envelope full of 20's and then pretty much ran across Amsterdam Ave to the car as I trailed off, "Thanks...?" behind him and stood there in disbelief on the corner. I promptly spent $20 of it on a sandwich and cough syrup and then went home and realized that I can finally wash my hands of this stupid goddamn job forever. I'm sure the DP felt incredibly awkward about the fact that he ended up paying me out of his pocket, but at least it saves my 225-pound friend a trip up to the Bronx with a Louisville Slugger. The End :D

I hardly ever wear my belt anymore, it usually ends up around the tripod if it comes out at all. It's the nylon 2" Lindcraft belt with the Cinebags AC pouch and the belt rubs on my hipbones and hurts like a b*tch. I'd sell it to you but I trimmed off a fair amount of excess since I'm pretty skinny. My pouch is starting to fall apart too, come to think of it... :( Definitely get a padded belt, especially if, like me, you HAVE no padding!

...Damn!

Robin, I write every day, actually, and have been doing so in various forms since the age of 4...and I think "taking the piss" is one of the best slang phrases ever invented....!

Okay, a few things... 1. Freya: If you really want to help me magically change my financial situation, be my guest. I get what you're saying, but in this economy, it's a hell of a lot harder than it sounds! 2. Jon Rosenbloom: (did I get that right? I'm sorry, I suck at names) I know that what you're really saying is, "You're better than these a$$holes" but whenever people mention me being in the union with the implication of, "What the f*ck are you doing on these crappy little jobs?" I cringe and die a little inside. I have not had the best luck with union work. For all practical purposes I really should just take it out of my goddamn signature. I joined before I should have...I had the money, but all my connections were just little bullsh*t fluff schmoozes leftover from working at CSC. I've pretty much given up on trying to get work as a union loader. It's just not where I landed when I jumped into this business and if I were meant to have gone down that road, it would've happened already. I'm not being pessimistic, I'm being realistic. All those people are gonna hire who they're gonna hire, and odds are it'll either be 1) some totally green kid fresh out of Panavision who they can mold into whatever they want, or 2) someone they have worked with for years. I am in neither of these categories. Like I said, I'm being real. And in all honesty, I don't even care anymore. I refuse to waste energy on a bad decision that I made 3 years ago. I take the work that comes to me. This stupid f*cking sh*tty job, in all of its dysfunction, is what came to me. I took it. I had to...there was nothing else. 3. David Rakoczy: No poop I should've had a deal memo. And when I first started working with these guys, they paid me at the end of the work week, just as they promised...so I didn't think this would become such a massive issue. For all of you telling me it's "just $500", I'm sorry, but are you f*cking serious? You know, not everyone is lucky enough to make that amount in ONE day on a union commercial as a loader. For me, $500 is A THIRD of my average monthly income. Like okay... I'm just gonna throw it out there: I WORK ON poop JOBS FOR poop PAY. Am I better than that? I don't even know anymore. It doesn't even matter. That's a different thread for a different time with a different amount of alcohol in my system, aka a lot. I'm really sick of having these conversations with people. If I could magically erase one single decision out of the many which I have had to make since moving to this city to work in this godforsaken business, it would be signing that stupid paperwork for the union. It has done f*ck all for me. I am out of that loop. Short of starting over, it is doubtful that I will get IN to that loop. Do I want to start over? F*ck no. Like I said, in 3 years I'll be 30 and I would rather have my eyes gouged out with a rusty fork than go back to destroying myself for 8 dollars an hour at CSC or any other rental house. That's pretty much the bottom line. This isn't just some isolated incident of, "Oh no, look, Annie got screwed over by a bunch of sh*thead cheapskates. Such is the way of the indie film industry." This, for me, is the icing on the goddamn cake, and it has pushed me over the edge. Maybe that makes me a weak person. I don't know and at this point, I don't care anymore. In the sense of operating differently from here on out, yes, I will "learn" from this. But in the sense of letting that money slip away, no, I can't just let it slide. Deal memo or not, I don't deserve this. Union or not, I don't deserve this. I worked for them for a certain rate, for a certain number of days, and apparently in New York City, a verbal contract will stand up in court. If that's the way it goes, then I refuse to waste a goddamn minute beating myself up for not having a deal memo or for taking a job like this in the first place. I look forward to that beautiful day when I no longer have to act out of desperation just to make a f*cking living. If anyone else wants to come forth and tell me how the hell I'm supposed to be doing any better, be my guest. You want "professional" conduct? Tell that to the producer who said he would pay me, and I quote, "when I feel like it." Tell that to the director who insisted we shoot for 12 hours in a torrential downpour on the side of a f*cking highway with no permits. You know, if this had happened on either side of tons of well-paying work with good people, that would be one thing...but instead it stretched out over the course of one of the slowest and loneliest summers that I have had in years. NOT FUN. This industry is destroying me. I can't deal with this anymore. I don't want a situation like this to be the reason that I walk away from it and do something else with my life that isn't such a f*cking grind, but man, I don't know.

I don't know if anyone brought this up yet, but as much as pulling on a RED or even a Letus adaptor (aka something not very forgiving) will technically give you more "practice", IMHO, it's still a completely different feel from pulling on 35mm or on a Super 16 job with Zeiss Super Speeds, etc. In other words, beyond the act of pulling focus itself, there are other differences which I think are hard to get a sense of until you simply experience it more...I don't know how better to explain it and I know it makes it sound like I either 1) smoke too much pot before the job ("focus is mysticalll maaaan...") or 2) have been doing this for 50 years. But upon reading this thread, I thought I'd throw it out there. Then you've got wireless focus, handheld, cranes, circular dolly track, etc. Plus if there's play in the follow focus, you have to learn to feel it from the lens. I first thought that this meant literally pulling OFF the lens, which I think sucks, but it just means that instead of referencing the follow focus marking disk, you're still using the follow focus to physically do the job, and yet making your actual marks on the lens itself. You also have to learn where to be so that you won't get in the way or f*ck up the operator. If you make a triangle between the camera, your body, and the subject, it becomes easier to visualize. Know the dialogue...ask for sides...if it's far away and you can't hear them, ask for talkback...you can rely on audio and physical cues to get a sense of timing too, not just visual/spatial. And always remember that you have to account for what everyone else is doing too. I'm also a musician and DJ and I think of pulling focus as a sort of visual mixing. As a DJ, the idea is to weave a seamless beat which keeps the floor moving. You can take creative liberties and make transitions between songs a bit more obvious but it all still has to land on a beat that people can dance to...and the whole time, you're watching the floor and listening to the booth with one ear, and listening to your cue channel in the other. To me it's the same sense of splitting your mind to make something happen. ...I guess that's why I like it, too! :D

...No, seriously...

Freya, In an ideal world, you would be right...and I can say that on an emotional level I am far more willing to walk away from this situation still with my head up. But financially, well, until things get better for me again, I can't let it go...not yet. As far as my stuff goes, uh, yeah, I kiiinda need that. I was a total idiot to leave it on the job and I realize that now. I don't even know if the true nature of this job is coming across with what I've been writing about it...I am one of four people who have been completely f*cked by this production. And this is the lowest of the low-budget. We're not talking about some 20-something year old trust fund kids throwing around some short ends in an SR and trying to shoot in the Village without permits. I don't know if I really spelled this out enough...we're talking about Italians from the Bronx with Mafia connections. Ordinary little silly rules and things like small claims court will not get through to these guys. I just got off the phone with one of the grips from before they cut the crew way down, and he's got some interesting dirt on the history of this production...namely that we are not alone and that this has been going on in various denominations with 3 other crews, for 3 years. They had run out of money previously and then picked up again. And again. And again... We are planning to hit them where it hurts and fight dirty. Now that I've fully realized what these guys have done to a few of my good friends in the film industry, I can no longer play nice.

Rob, I agree with you about the DP/AC dynamic. I'm pretty hurt and disappointed that this DP does not seem to be more supportive of me in regards to this situation. I've told him over and over that I'm not trying to drag him into any drama and I love working with him, but that unlike him, I did NOT defer my pay and can't work that way. In many ways, I saw this coming from miles away, I just didn't trust myself to realize it and thought I was being paranoid. Anyway, the production as you know is called Grasslands. The producer's name is Giancarlo LoRusso. Like I said, I highly doubt you will hear much about them. I should have just stayed away from this job from the start. I seem to have developed this complex that I can be the one to walk in and save any bad job from themselves and rise above the bullsh*t...clearly I cannot.

Well, according to the phone call I just got, because I threatened legal action, I am now off the job and acted "unprofessionally". I think at this point, the concept of being "professional" is irrelevant...if all I'm going to be told is that I will get paid when the producer feels like it, I can't deal with that. I'm well aware that I said many things I technically shouldn't have said, but I absolutely don't care because I have HAD IT with these people. The DP has done nothing to back me up on this and for all I know, now HE'S avoiding my phone calls too. I feel helpless. There are two other people who are also waiting on their money...they haven't been on the job in months. I was just the last one to continue hanging in there. And I can't do it anymore. I've tried being nice...I've tried being patient...I've given too much of myself for too little, and my trust in this business has been destroyed by the people who could care less about paying their crew on time and being honest about what is actually going on. I've been blindly struggling in this industry for 3 years. Which is not long...but in another 3 years I will be 30...and I do not want to be fighting the same fight when I'm 30 f*cking years old. I don't have time for luck and I have completely lost my patience. At this point, I just want my stuff back, and my money first. ...Paul...does this constitute "selfish" behavior?

Paul, You're totally right, and the fact that someone I have never even met can pick up on that so easily, is a major wake-up call to me in and of itself. For the moment, I would say one of my biggest fears is of sacrificing too much and getting too little, or nothing, in return. Not to mention, I am truly concerned that I have burned myself out and that the anger and extreme frustration I feel about this business is clouding the passion I used to have. I hesitate to say anything else for fear of incriminating myself or giving people the wrong idea. But the fact remains that the universe is clearly trying to tell me something. I have a few theories which I hope will lead me to peace. For now I'm trying to separate myself from work a little better and concentrate on the creative side of things a little more, just to give myself a different perspective. As for the money this guy owes me, I will not give up...I can only be grateful that I've been luckier in the past and that I'm not alone. Michael, that video cracks me up...sad but true, and pretty funny! Thanks for the link!

I don't want to name names yet. You guys probably don't even know any of these f*cking people. I mean, I don't know what it is with me these days...I seem to be attracting a@@holes in droves. I got bitched out this morning by another producer who'd wanted to bring me onto a $100/day job, but it ran right into a job that paid more...so with two days' notice, three if you count the checkout, I told him-apologizing for short notice- that I would be taking this other job. What the f*ck does he think he's gonna get for $100 a day anyway? He goes into this whole thing about being in a panic and not being able to find someone to replace me and I wanted to be like, "You're f*ckin a right you won't find anybody, look at what you're offering!" CLUELESS! Why do *I* do work like this? Because thanks to this 35mm job not paying me and thanks to plain old bad luck, I have to take whatever I can get now. John-I don't know if getting f*cked out of your money is less common these days, or if they just aren't paying as much in the first place so it doesn't matter as much. I tell people who haven't worked in 20 years that I'm getting $200 a day and they're like, "What?! That's so low!" and I just want to cry and/or slap them. I no longer have any concept of what I am worth as a person thanks to these douche bag producers who just want a cheap set of hands to carry around their goddamn gear. What the f*ck happened to this business and who do I have to screw to get better work? I mean, seriously, what the hell? I'm not even looking for anyone to tell me to "hang in there" at this point, or to offer me some sort of consolation that things will pick up or get better. I have all the answers I need for myself...I've been standing by watching all my CSC buddies get better work than me for 3 years. Maybe all I am at the end of the day is a cheap indie 1st AC...but it doesn't mean I'm a SUCKER. If situations like these are a test of one's ability to survive in this business, then I guess I have failed. Oh well. I don't have the luxury of a "normal job", a trust fund, parents who give me money, family in the business, or anything like that...this is my job and I do it so I can make money...as much as it beats working in an office, that's the bottom line. I don't know why it's such an issue to these people that I think this way. It's called "survival" and I was under the impression that we all have to do it.

I have been advised to take a roll of film when I go to pick up my AC kit, which has been gathering dust at the director's house. F*cking summer. I've been limping along without it on silly little video jobs, which is fine, but it would be nice to have my stuff WITH me again. So yeah, I've talked to the 2nd/loader who they fired, and one of the sound guys, and neither of them have gotten paid either. Go figure. I didn't even think of the production diary- I guess it is worth something. Do I have the mental energy at this point in my life to pursue legal action? Not really...but if it means getting my money, then I would. I'm honestly surprised that something like this hasn't happened to me before...I guess I should've seen it coming, and I guess it could've been worse. Anyway...Depeche Mode, however, was absolutely unforgettable...best two nights of my life. (Yeah, I saw them twice...what can I say, I am devoted! ;))

Freya, You hit the nail on the head. $500 would be negligible if I were raking it in on union jobs, but I'm not. For all practical purposes, yes, I am in the union, but it has not done what it could have for me if I'd played my cards better or if things had gone easier for me a few years ago. To answer the resounding chorus of, "Then why did you join in the first place?" it's basically the same reason that poop like this happens to me...because I trusted other people too easily, and simply didn't know any better. Things were different in 2006 and this realization has finally and fully affected me. I can no longer mince words about this....I have had way too many people let me down this summer, whether or not it's been their fault or whether it's just been bad luck. This feature ended up creating one of the worst cash flow issues I've had in years. I guess I've been luckier than I thought in the past. I thought this job would renew my faith in the independent film world and instead it has destroyed it. The only way I can really see a way to get the inner peace I am so desperate for after dealing with this poop, is to start shooting. I think it would help me to occasionally have more creative input and to feel like I'm doing something a little different from usual. As far as other eggs in other baskets, I feel you...that's why I'm also pursuing work as a recording engineer and musician. I've been playing music for 20 years and I realized a couple of nights ago that I can no longer ignore that fact and I have to do something with it...if only because my diploma tells me so (BFA in Sound Design). I can say without hesitation that this has been one of the worst summers I've had in a long time. At the beginning of the summer I knew there were things I wanted for myself (read: Depeche Mode tickets! :wub: ) that I had to have... no matter how much I ended up making. I decided that I would rather live comfortably and have these things for as long as I could get away with, than spend my life cutting corners and making even more sacrifices than I've already made in the past few years. I know how dangerous it is to live that way as a freelancer, but I figured my part-time work as a teaching assistant at New York Film Academy would help hold me up...and was completely caught off guard when they took half their summer staff off the schedule, including me, due to having far less students and classes. Unemployment covers a fraction of what I would have made if I'd been able to stay on with them. It helps, but it's not the same. I am obviously continuing to work as an AC and am now hoping for a REAL feature that won't 1. suck, 2. rip me off, and 3. have such a messed up schedule. ;) But I also want to shoot, and I want to create, and I want to play. It's actually incredibly frustrating to realize this when I feel like there's basically nothing I can do about it given the state of the economy (which has finally hit me full force). I've been talking to some friends in the music biz, telling all my DP buddies that I want to start operating, and playing keyboards in 3 different bands, but nothing has come of it yet financially..and it might not, for a while. Well, at the least, if there's anything this feature has taught me, it's that I have to be flexible with what I do, or I will get stuck. Maybe it's a sign from the universe of bigger things to come for me...who knows. It's just really hard to live day to day thinking about that money and wondering why the people who won't give it to me, are allowed to exist at all in this industry. It's funny to me (and a little sad) that the producer had this whole conversation with me about having "faith in the project". I'll tell you what I have faith in, buddy. MYSELF...NOT YOU. Cool, I wrote another cine.com novel. Sorry guys! Enjoy the newest thesis statement! In the meantime, if you honestly think I can negotiate a small claims suit against this guy WITHOUT any paperwork of sorts (deal memo, etc), please advise. <3

So, I haven't had the best summer in the world as far as money goes. I've gotten screwed over and ripped off left and right. Maybe I was naive to think this would never happen to me as a low-budget indie 1st, but what can I say, until recently I thought most people were inherently good. HA! Share the lolz. If you recall the 35mm BL-4 feature that I was keeping the production diary on (see "Kiss My Grass: Grasslands"), I think I mentioned the erratic schedule and lack of call sheets, etc. At first it seemed like a typical indie...nothing I couldn't deal with. Until now. It's been over a month and they owe me $525. ("They" meaning the ONE producer of the film) The sound guy and the 2nd AC/loader from the original crew, have not gotten paid either. We have no paperwork or invoices or anything to back us up...we'd been getting paid in cash. The producer does not answer his phone. GEE, I WONDER WHY? HMM... The anger and helplessness is starting to build within me. I can't believe I was such a sucker and didn't have any deal memo or personal invoice or anything like that. I blindly trusted these f*cking people to pay me and now they have let me down and I'm sick of it. What the hell am I supposed to do now? I have no legal legs to stand on...do I? Our only hope is that the sound guy kept the audio files...but other than that, I'm pretty much figuring I'll never see that money. Any ideas? Drugs and alcohol have already been taken into account as a short-term solution. ;) But really, I just want that money. Apparently production's account has been overdrawn and that's why we came to a standstill and couldn't keep shooting/paying people. In my eyes, that doesn't excuse this producer's behavior. If I'd known this would turn into an involuntarily deferred pay job, I wouldn't have taken it. UGH I'M SO PISSED!!! :angry:

TL;DR: Make sure you have a union job before you join the union, because it is awfully expensive. Don't do what I did. ;)

David's mention of healthcare got me thinking...I don't want to threadcrap too bad, but one of the things that bugs me about Local 600 is that you must work x number of hours to qualify for their health plan (f*cked if I know, I haven't qualified yet! haha) , and then if you don't get those hours in per month, you risk "falling off" the plan again. So this means that if a union member gets sick or breaks a limb or whatever and CAN'T WORK, they are poop outta luck. I think that totally sucks and I would gladly say it to Steven Poster's face any day. For what we pay simply to carry that cute little card in our wallets, the union should at least offer some kind of system where you get your health care through them, but by paying a little extra each month instead of having it be dependent on whether or not you work. Am I right? I mean come on. For those of you who get all your hours, great, I'm happy for you, but what about the people who don't? It just seems a little backwards to me, to make like, one of the biggest understatements of the year. Yeah. You don't want to get me started on the union right now.

Karl, you are making blanket statements again when it comes to unions. Local 600 doesn't have that kind of prestige, maybe on the west coast but not here. I mean, let's get real here. They don't care how good you are at what you do...they just want your money. Although the "good ol' boys" part kinda made me LOL because as a chick in this business, that's often how I feel. (Am I allowed to say that?) :P

In all seriousness, it sounds like you're doing pretty well, which is good. And I guess you're asking about how to become a better 1st or 2nd, right? I would say maybe start looking for smaller non-union gigs where you can work steadily as a 1st just to build your skills in a low-pressure environment. I don't know how 600 is in other regions about working non-union, but here in NYC they could give a poop. So why not take advantage of that? Other than that, which may or may not work for you, it's hard to say....I think one of the difficult things about being a legitimate member of the camera department now and not a camera PA, is that it's harder to sit back and have that broader perspective of everybody else's jobs, because now you're too busy doing your own. So there's not much time to observe others doing it...you just kinda figure it out. As for finding work outside of Detroit, I dunno man. Why rock the boat if you're doing this well, unless you're truly interested in traveling, right? Doesn't the union have a production list of jobs going on nearby?

...Pfft...share the work? ;) Don't know what to tell ya. Welcome to cine.com.

I can do 12 hours and feel normal. I start to get loopy at 16. I start to consider using speed to get me through the rest of the night/day/whatever you call it at that point, by 17. I contemplate a few lines of blow at hour 20. I contemplate suicide at 22. In all seriousness, I don't think it needs to be a pissing contest. Didn't we figure this out in college while pulling all-nighters? The human body is not really designed to be awake and functioning for much longer than 16 hours. All sorts of fun things start to happen to you after that point...potentially seizures, heart attacks, dehydration, etc. Not to mention, it totally f*cks your metabolism/circadian rhythms/moods. Just ask the raver kids. As much as I enjoy what I do, I really hope I don't die for it someday. I mean, call me weak or selfish, but yeah. I'm just saying. I occasionally work 20-hour days because what the hell am I supposed to do, put on my pajamas at hour 12 and stop working? Ha ha OK GUYS YOU KEEP SHOOTING, IT IS PAST MY BEDTIME, I'LL BE ON THE CAMERA TRUCK LOLZ!! But goddamn...if someone ever told me I didn't have to, and in fact couldn't, then I have to admit I'd be pretty relieved. Yeah, you get that adrenaline rush, but I think I hit my limit when I double-dipped on a job, had 10 cups of coffee in the span of about 18-20 hours or so, threw it all up when I got home at which point my nose started bleeding, and then promptly passed out for 11 hours as soon as both nostrils had clotted. Was it worth it? I don't even remember, but I doubt it. I've had hangovers that felt better. Man, conversations like this shouldn't even be about unions, it should be about common sense and not being an idiot. Sometimes when I'm on set after a really long day, it's almost scary how peoples' moods change and get really ugly...and it truly makes me wonder about the level of work we're doing. I was on one job where we were already behind but the director himself said, at hour 13, "I'm pushing this stuff back until tomorrow because whatever we shoot now is gonna look like poop...we're all too tired." And he was probably right. At the very least, if we don't consider the quality of our mental and physical health, we should consider, god forbid, the quality of the work.