Robin R Probyn

The photo with the core looks like one of the sprung loaded "securing lugs" (the top one in the pic ) that spring out when you push the centre button ,isn't out properly .. or you not putting the core on straight .. you shouldn't have to be constantly slapping the mags .. I only had to do that occasionally..  or the noise is because those plastic guides are so worn down .. 

3 hours ago, Bruce Greene said:

There are a couple ways to look at this:

Pure return in rentals vs. marketing value.

I’ve made some purchases such as my Steadicam and Arri BL camera that paid for themselves many times over.

I also invested in an early digital cinema camera system that was quite expensive and only returned about 25% in rentals. But owning the equipment taught me much about digital acquisition and helped me make a couple key relationships which enabled me to transition from operator to DP.

And one relationship was built on donating the camera package for free on a short film. I’ve only worked for that producer one day since... but she introduced my daughter to what had become a career as a writer / producer at a major network.  So, in the end, it paid off very well. More than what I spent on her university education!

lesson: don’t over look the marketing potential of a purchase and.... happy holidays!!!

Yeah thats a good point , Ive always bought my own cameras , number 7 to date , and you do learn them inside out .. nothing will ever catch you out ..  and you are learning generally about sensors , gamma curves , menus, etc..  Im no camera tech but on more than few multi camera shoots ,same camera as mine ,Ive been able to sort of some problems / settings the camera ops who were renting couldn't solve .. or questions the director / producers had .. it gets remembered .. you were the guy who knew the gear the other folks didn't .. 

43 minutes ago, David Peterson said:

S35 is not going away any time soon, they'll still be around for years to come. 

Heck, I just purchased a S35 cinema camera this week!

Sure Im not saying s35 will be gone by the end of the year, but manufactures will make cameras with FF sensors as "standard " , to cater for that market and /or give the user the choice to use both , but with a s35 crop mode .. cheaper just to make one FF sensor with a s35crop, than make two different cameras..   the other thing is marketing .. and production company "Buzz"..who 10 years ago would have thought that ⅔ ENG cameras and zoom lenses would be virtually non existent in the markets they dominated 100% ..for decades ..you would be laughed out of the room .. they are much better suited for documentary , corporate , event work than s35mm CMOS cameras.. but look what happened .. !.. . that was all through clever marketing ..  there is no freelancer that can survive with a only a ⅔ ENG camera .. and that switch over happened in less than 2 years .. I know.. I had both, a PMW500 and an f5.. first it was corporates all going s35 and within a year every single broadcast tv show except for sports / breaking news .. I had the PMW500 less than a year and it was a door stop ..

Never say never !  ..I couldn't give away my $35K Fujinon ENG wide angle zoom.. that 6 months before was worth a decent middle size car..

Happy xmas everyone ..Tinkerty tonk and down with plastic rings to the face .. 

2 hours ago, Satsuki Murashige said:

Most of the interviews in the book reference the early silent days of Hollywood cinema, so you may be right! 

Theres always a first time sir .. stranger things have happened at sea ..

Its a reference to the early way films were shown around the country , they were projected onto a white sheet ..often with the circus I believe.. 

Great timing by Sachtler, Ill be looking at the Activ 8 and flowtech, as a light weight 75mm tripod for Sony fx9. Not out yet though AFAIK ..

in the 80,s ,on a shoot where I was the assistant .. we took 1 x 2K Blond, 1 x stand ,2 x ext leads .. And .. an electrician ! .. known as a Spark in them olde days .. this light was used exactly once in the 2 week shoot , bounced off a ceiling ..  The reason being a BBC rule that only an electrician could touch ,let alone plug in a light .. it was totally mad for this small doc shoot.. but Ive seen it the other way too.. people with no idea what they are doing blowing up stuff.. I think its really down to common sense if you need sparks or not .. LED lights has greatly reduced the blowing up / burning side of things .. and being able to run off batteries .. in the doc/corp world.. 

As above .. there is a travel kit of 2 x Astra that comes with a purpose built foam cut out pelican case ..with stands .. mine have flown all over the world .. indestructible box.. slightly fiddley AC unit but it attaches to the yolk so no cables and bits hanging off light stands .. a have a DOP choice large Softbox , great as a key for interviews but doesnt fit in the case ,Small size will fit into the case ..  they are not the cheapest light  but for any interview situation and much more .. they are very simple to set up and strong ,recommend the travel kit ..

On 12/14/2020 at 4:46 PM, David Peterson said:

Try not to think of it as "cropped" sensor. 

As after all Super 35mm is the industry standard!

I'll be buying myself a Sony FS7 soon, and that's an APS-C / S35 Sony E Mount camera. 

But maybe not for long sir .. looks like digital video cameras are all going to be FF sensors sooner than later .. with a s35 crop mode ..

On 12/13/2020 at 3:39 AM, charles pappas said:

As Mr. Calderon's question is now framed as a discussion of business-models and investment returns, let me add this.

The business model of a rental house and the business model of the rental portion of an owner/operator should be identical. In other words, the owner/operator must charge for a specific piece of equipment what a convenient and accessible rental house would charge for the same item. Any variations should either be trivial or balance out over a short period of time.

If equipment rental should be $1000 per day and and operator is $1000 per day the owner/operator can word-play and say I'm charging 800 for equipment and 1200 for me, but any producer would ignore that statement, and if they don't it's meaningless anyway.

As for a producer trying to "get the prices down compared to some low rental rate they can get from the massive rental houses (are there any small ones left)," that seems to that the owner/operator is overcharging for his equipment or, more likely, undercharging for his services, or even more likely, more word-play is involved. If a rental house consistently charges less than marginal costs to producers, it will go broke. If it overcharges a large segment of its market, the operators, it will also, soon, destroy its own business model and go broke, or stop doing it.

For both the rental house and the owner/operator equipment is a fixed cost; the owner/operator can live in a studio apartment with a roommate in a run-down area, but he must pay his fixed cost, that is, charge fully for it.

As an aside, yes, "payback period," is a rule-of-thumb, but it is the least-best of established valuation methods, especially in a business like equipment rental or the owner side of an owner/operator business where inventory (for rental) is basically the business as a percentage of assets. It ignores the very significant opportunity costs.  

 

 

Large rental houses that buy 30 x fx9,s ,for example, and will get a big discount ,and can charge less .. an owner operator will have paid the full price .. and pay for maintenance at a much higher rate .. this is a problem in the UK for owner operators , production wants to employ them because they are like their work.. but do not want to rent their gear .. rental houses are virtually giving it away because they are renting out a large amount of gear each day so anything is income .. this is why I will only work with my own gear .. if they want me its with my gear only .. this is the only way to have a decent life style as a freelancer in doc/ corp world these days .. no one is "over charging " its called keeping the rates at the  established levels .. without being undercut by very ow rental rates.. BTW it used to be the other way round .. rental fees were high and the owner /op could actually provide cheaper rates as an all in deal .. but now with way cheaper cameras thats been turned on its head ..  you should probably go into dentistry .. much better prospects ..:) 

23 minutes ago, Patrick Baldwin said:

I hear you and I would of course use them given that ultimatum. They must be in love with at orange rubber look!

I dont know if its a particularly UK thing .. but almost always send out a director with the Orange rubber drives .. its pretty much standard ..

3 hours ago, Patrick Baldwin said:

When I'm on the road I download to bus powered WD 1TB SSD drives which are routinely 300mbs using Hedge. Whenever I use mains powered 7200rpm drives the download is always 170mbs. It doesn't matter one bit who has made it or what the cache size is it is always the same. 

The original posters problem is the bus powered spinning hard drives. I personally won't touch anything made by LaCie having had numerous failures in years gone by. 

Huge fan of Hedge. 

Yes the discussion re speeds BUS or AC was of course in reference to HDD not SSD..  unfortunately HDD are still the norm when provided by production , as I said, the last shoot I finished just last week,  BBC / ZDF / Arte  co production with plenty of budget ,it was actually a direct demand from production , as they said their insurance had stipulated  LaCie rugged .. if I had refused they would have had to find another cameraman .. or insurance company .. !

7 hours ago, Satsuki Murashige said:

Yes, for corporate/industrial/documentary the prod co often wants the DP to give them a labor+gear rate and avoid dealing with a rental house, pickups & drop-offs. Of course, then the responsibility is on you to make sure the gear and the backups all work, and that you’re getting a COI from them (which is often like pulling teeth for some reason).

Personally, I much prefer the commercial/feature/tv style of working where I’m only at the rental house to shoot tests and say hi to everyone, and can otherwise just concentrate on keeping the director happy and never touch the gear myself unless the camera’s rolling. But I don’t think that’s very realistic for the vast majority of us anymore. We live in an owner-op world, for better or for worse.

Yes Im just talking about the doc/corp work thats true .. and yeah I think for good or bad , the more polarized it gets in all markets ..you will have the high end stuff that Mr Deakins and the 15 or so guys that seems to shoot all that stuff .. high end streaming shows ..and the 15 guys who shoot all those .. and the commercials they shoot between projects .. and the rest !..

9 minutes ago, Satsuki Murashige said:

The income situation changes depending on whether you follow a rental house model or an owner-operator model. If you’re the type of camera person who charge a day rate for each piece of rental equipment a la carte, then you’re basically following the rental house model. On the other hand, if you’re mixing your labor and rentals into a single rate, then it gets more complicated.

In the rental house model, big ticket items are supposed to pay off in a certain # of rental days. For example, an OConnor 2575D tripod head with a pan arm, tie-down, and a 2575-120 tripod plate costs around $17k USD and rents for around $115/day. That’s 148 rental days to make your money back. If your rental house mostly services films and tv shows that get deep discounts on long-term rentals, it might take several years to get that 148 days. But since a regularly serviced OConnor head will easily last you 20 years, that’s still a pretty good investment. 

ARRI/Zeiss Master Primes cost around $30k-$40k/per focal length and rent for around $300/day each. So that’s around 117 rental days to break even. Master Primes are very expensive to service, so factor that in as well. They were introduced in 2005, and 2019 was probably the first year that they were superseded by the full frame ARRI Signature Primes. So about 14 years as top dog, pretty good investment.

Going lower on the cost spectrum, the Sony FS7 came out in 2014 and cost $8k. It still rents for $400/day (I’m going to ignore the Mk2 for simplicity’s sake). That’s only 20 days of rental to make your money back. Of course, you have to also buy media, batteries, lenses, and other accessories to complete the camera package. So it might be closer to 30-35 days. But you get the idea. In general, the cheaper the item, the shorter the shelf life, and thus the fewer rental days it should take to pay off. 

If you’re doing the owner-op thing, then you need to factor the cost of your equipment into your day rate - for example, if your labor+gear rate is $2k/day, and your camera/support/monitoring/lighting should be renting for $1k/day, then you’re actually only making $1k/day as a DP. If your gear costs $2k/day to rent and you only charge $2k for your services, then you’re not making any money from your labor at all and just paying off the equipment.

I suspect there are some folks who are charging a day rate for labor and are not factoring in equipment costs. In which case, you’re not paying off your equipment at all, so it’s more of a business loss, I guess? Not really sure how that works.

I was just saying this on the fx9 FB forum .. its a camera you can pay off in a good month of work..22 days , based on $400 per day rental ..  compared to the old 3 years general target for the old $70K ENG beasts .. its mad not to buy gear these days.

Also in my experience its better to charge a day rate including labour and gear .. the only time I have production insisting on a break down ,is to try to get the prices down compared to some low rental rate they can get from the massive rental houses (are there any small ones left) ..which is a totally different business model to an owner operator .. the best response is to tell them to feel free to make their own breakdown "for their budgets" as they say they need it for ..

The most uncomfortable camera operating situation is when you realize you should have charged a lot higher day rate .. 

Im certainly no propeller head , Im just happy if the thing starts up, especially after installing Big Sur.. blank screens abound .. but Ive always heard that an AC powered HDD will be faster down load than a BUS powered one.. although for me the BUS power convenience is greater than the speed .. Im not a DIT I just have to down load 1 or 2 cards at the end of the day with Hedge to check and generate a report .. 

1 hour ago, Davo McConville said:

Ah then a power stop is your friend! DM me and I’ll send a photo of an inexpensive little setup. 
All bus drives will be about the same, sadly

SSD - should be a lot faster, especially on USBc and even better thunderbolt 3!

Yes true , but TBH just having BUS power is simplest and easiest in a hotel room in south east Asia .. .. although longer down ,loads .. I have USB C Mac Book Pro .. not sure why it wasn't faster .. ,maybe the Sony SxS card reader then was the block.. the cards were new ..  I have XQD / fx9 now should try it out on an SSD .. trouble is production will seldom spring for 3 X large capacity SSD,s.. until they get even cheaper I guess.. they love those Rugged drives .. even as far as demanding them for their insurance.. some ones on the payroll for sure .. !

6 hours ago, Davo McConville said:

Ah cool – yes Silverstack is a $$$$$$$$$ beast

Message me if you ever need any other help! I don't look at the forums too much but would see a message

Thanks for the knowledge sir .. yes unfortunately the BUS powered HDD,s are slower but Im often  in a hotel room downloading and sometimes they don't have many power points .. like 2 at opposite ends of the room ! ..so not having to power the drives is easier if slower .. I have a shoot next week where they said their insurance policy actually stipulated Lacie rugged ..!  because they need to be shipped .. which of the BUS powered drives do you think are the fastest .. or all about the same due to the power not being separate ..  occasionally production have sprung for SDD but I didn't find them that much faster ..?

19 minutes ago, David Peterson said:

I think for the extreme price of an a7Smk3 you're massively better off buying a secondhand Sony FS7 as your main camera instead. You'd do better in the marketplace competing against others for jobs as a cameraman, rather than being "yet another dude with a stills camera" (of which those people are a dime a dozen). 

Don't expect the a7Smk3 to be a big improvement with IBIS over your a7III, you need to go to Panasonic instead for that. (or heck, even Fujifilm or Nikon) As Sony made a mistake, they thought they'd only make compact APS-C mirrorless, thus the E Mount was designed for APS-C. But then they squeezed in a FF sensor behind the E Mount, but that doesn't leave much room for IBIS to move around effectively. (Nikon meanwhile thought ahead, thanks to coming into the market late, and made the biggest mount of all!)

If a Sony FS7 doesn't appeal to you, then just stick with the a7III, and go make the best you can of it! Am sure there are still plenty of ways you can improve yourself. 

If you have an itch to spend money that you just can't get rid of, then spend it on lighting or audio gear. 

But yes, if you were to start again, getting a Panasonic S5 (or heck, even a Panasonic GH5) would have made more sense than the a7III.

 

True , there are some very cheap f5/ f55,s out there now .. and probably going to be more of them.. 

Really the answer is the A7s3... nothing comes close to it at the moment ..  but 8bit is not the end of the end of the world and the A73 ,for video , is alot better than some of the other A7s that cost alot more .. like the A9 ..  you just cant grade it much.. otherwise the A73 can produce great images ..  as above ,content is more important than the craze of pixel peeking and LUT mania thats been unleashed by misleading marketing .. 

I would keep it simple .. I use a Mac book pro 2017 with Hedge software ,down loading to 3 x Lacie drives .. down load to 3 drives at the same time from the one card.. as long as you start off with decent battery power you can afford to use up all the 4 USB C ports ..about 40 - 50 mins to all 3 from about 200GB card .. 4K  24p..

Hedge is very good and easy to use.. it has pre sets for folder naming etc.. and alot cheaper than Silver stack ,which has a ton of features you will probably never use ..

I think GL,s  actual first choice of DP for SW as Haskell Wexler ..(American Graffiti).. who read the script and sent it back to Lucas with " this will never work" written on it .. his son Mark Wexler told me this ..

Cheap , one battery power , the best interface by far , small, light weight, 800 nit ( ok for outdoors most of the time ) ..SDI.. decent build .. Small HD focus .. 

13 hours ago, Giray Izcan said:

Put a shirt/towel over your shoulder and hold on to the mattebox - if it is a studio mattebox. If not, get some handles. As long as the camera is balanced, you'll be fine. Alexa is not heavier than most 35 cameras and plenty of handheld was done on 35 cameras - not all those cameras were 2c's and such either.

He has to shoot in 'under slung " mode .. not on the shoulder .. thats the problem ..