Mike Brennan

The above quote is the bit that needs more explaination. I'd agree with you if we could record all of the output from the 12bitAD without further processing. But we don't/can't. (Next generation cameras will have 14bit ADs) You are saying that filmstream delivers more shadow and more highlight detail to tape than a reasonable gamma curve in RGB mode? How about the description below; Filmstream; is the 10bit log processing of flat RGB from 12bit AD? log proceesing squeezes as much as this as possible on tape. RGB; a DP/tech/rental house can select a general gamma, thus narrowing down the areas he wants the most to go to tape. So more bits are used to record to tape the parts of the picture that are needed, rather than try to squeeze everything as with filmstream? Both filmstream and RGB use same white and black point from the AD. Keeping the white balance in the zone is probably better for grading than recording a green filmstream picture. 30 bit? processing within camera is pretty good to manipulate signal and colour balance. Comments anyone? Mike Brennan

MotionFX in London have Viper and moco. Far as I'm aware, noone has been able to integrate undercranking overcranking with shutter angle changes using moco with video camera. Mike Brennan

The Euro version does 25p 50i So could be good camera for indies. Mike Brennan

I think you would be in the ball park if you bought your own lamps. Newer darkrooms aren't dark at all... just red. Turn shutter off for another stop you'll be ok. Rent a prime lens fro another 1/2 stop. Little bit of white rim light shouldn't be a problem. Maybe light the background only so you have a silhouette with nice clean blacks. Bounce a low wattage Fresnel into a tray of water to create a little ripple liquid effect on the face, shouldn't effect the print too much. Consider a lock off shot where you light left/right/top/bottom on a seperate pass. Mike Brennan

Most of mine low/medium budgets have been posted on HD, this is more to do with director editor post house wanting to build HD reels than anything else. Varicam will give you easier slo mo option. f900 will give you 12 bit head and more data to tape to zoom into reframe ect. Don't force your favourite post house to use a format it doesn't have experience with. Get someone on location who knows the camera if it is your first shoot with the camera. Mike Brennan

There are three DVCPROHD codecs that can be used on location One for 720/60p standard (That varicam comacorder uses) One that works at 25/50i AJ-HDX400? camcorder does 1440x 1080 4:2:2 One that works at 29.97p/59.94i AJ-HDX400 camcorder 1280 x 108 4:2:2 Note that the HDX400 camera uses a 1280x720 pixel ccd which is upconverted to 1080i then sampled to 1440 x 1080 or 1280 x 720. It also has a 12bit head so it is better than Varicam in these respects. Mike Brennan

I've done them myself, I was interested if how broad your perspective is. Mike Brennan

The P&S loses 1 1/2 stops The new tube loses ? Mike Brennan

Debate? Geoff Boyle of CML preferrred to lump sampling and compressional together in the early days which a lot of people still remember. I was specific quoting (what I call) the "back end" compression to tape. This is the only data compression that takes place. Sampling and sub sampling isnt compression. My figures are based on what other experts think, Charles Poynton, Mark Schubin and the BBC. In reference to Panasonic data the figures come from Panasonic and BBC. Mike Brennan

Test the lens on a camera too because lens manufacturers design the lens to work with CCDs. The bottom line is what ends up on screen. Elhanan, have you made a comparative test to 1/ HD video 2/Film out to I know a publication that would be interested in publishing such a test Mike Brennan

Derek, In respect of highlights I awaite your research into white point of log vs lin. In respect to painting on set I think that shooting with carefull consideration of gammas will give the DP more room to manouver in post, because selecting a gamma in camera gets him closer to where he is going with his look. In addition it also allows a DP to interact his lighting sceme to the location with the benifit of the monitor. (the reason given so far for Filmstream not being used on many movies) Shooting filmstream does not allow a DP to use the camera like any film stock but one! Using gammas the DP can select his filmstock in camera. Derek, the idea of this thread is to explore other ways of expressing what filmstream does. Repeating manufactures product description has lead to a lot of confusion now 444 rgb with film gammas is available from Sony. Filmstream does not record raw data from ccds, it records a 10 bit log conversion of a 12 bit analouge to digital conversion of the raw data from the ccds!! Phew , thats two prcesses removed from recording RAW data of the ccds! You actually say why not capture the *most* raw data and leave it to post? Because the "the most" raw data from a ccd is actually still being chanelled through the 12bit AD, so the more correct question is what is the best way to record the output from the 12 bit AD? Filmstream gives you a "lets try and capture it all approach", gammas give you the approach of pointing the bus in the right direction and then fine tuning in post. Horses for courses but don't say filmstream records more or captures more without qualification or you are doing the marketing guys work for them! It is simple to use as you say at the cost of reducing the control the DP has of getting the look he wants on location and actually giving him less to work with in post than had he chosen a setup close to what he wanted. The fact that for the past 3 years Viper has been delivering green pictures in filmstream mode when optical correction (or correction in the AD) would have given you more room to play with the green channel in post is an example of how misunderstood filmstream technique is and how this industry is often lead by manufactures marketing. It would be very good to see a wider choice of film style gammas in the Viper in RGB mode, but Thomson have not done any work on the 12bit AD let alone filmstyle gammas since the camera was introduced. And just to further demonstrate how imperfect the termonology is in some Prosumer DV cameras white balance is done within the AD. Mike Brennan

Maybe it was the difference between 720 lines vs 1080? One way to figure this out is to compare with standard def to see if you have a similar experience. The Sony does do a 1080 scan of the crt I don't know about the Panasonic. When you connect a YPbPr breakout cable from f900 viewfinder into 24 inch crt it is full res. Mike Brennan

Alexander, the above is a little confusing. There are no HD Video style lenses that are marketed without the servo. Lenses that are available in cinestyle may use same glass but have completly different mechanics that provide improved functionality for "film style" use namely improved focus barrell rotation. Second part of the post is also vauge. What do you mean by Cannon and Fuji have no t stops like Zeiss zoom? Do you refer to speed? Fuji has faster zoms than the Zeiss for 20% more, Canon and Fuji both have slower zooms for 50% less. Please clarify. Mike Brennan

Derek, the chalenge is to difine all this in a meaningfull way to DPs. At the moment we are using language and expression invented by manufacturers. Mike Brennan

What ar/will be the playstation 3 specifications? Mike Brennan

Some of these questions are being reffered to in Viper News thread. Mike B

Derek, again, I don't want to appear argumentative, but you haven't really explained why 444 rgb with good gammas has less exposure latitude than log. In respect to what is good for post RGB can also deliver "flat" at same bit depth as log ? so where is the advantage of log in post? Mike Brennan

Yes, I'm glad soemone sees where I am comming from with this perspective! What most DPs care about is controlling highlights, we are told that filmstream gives more exposure latitude but in fact their are less steps allocated to defining highlight detail. Shouldn't this mean that there is less highlight detail... equals less dynamic range? How filmstream can thus be described as having increased latitude is one of the great err mysteries of HD, as I see it ! OK so the processing records more tonal steps, more tonality in the shadows to which our eyes are more sensative. However, the shadows are fairly easy to control in TV mode, increase black gamma or add a little light a more practical solution compared to the control needed for highlights... Comments? Mike Brennan

Today I saw the Genesis vs Film test again along with 120 other interested people. I'm beginng to get the hang on the wide shots at least of spotting the difference. make up a new set of scenes and I'd be stumped for a while I guess. 100% of members of the public would not have a clue with this test. OK it is a test we all know about tests and agendas ect To put this discussion in perspective, at the same screening we saw a few shorts. I asked the (mature) director of one of the short movies shot on HD if the choice of shooting with the shutter off was an asthetic one. He didn't know what I was talking about. Blurred pictures? what do you mean? If an experienced director can produce, direct, offline, online transfer to film, screen at festivals without realising that motion was more blurred than film then perhaps we should revaluate our terms of reference when we discuss the differences between film and digital. A second blurred motion example is that I have yet to see a critic comment that the motion in "Collateral" was different or strange. Mike Brennan

Ref 40mm grab, the jaggies on her right hand, set against the window, are interesting if you blow it up. Multicoloured with a nice shade of blue every now and again. Look under her hand and you'll see random(?) primary coloured pixels poping up in the shadows at much higher luminence. Dare I call these "smarties" an artifact? Its not something I've seen on SR1W before so perhaps its from the camera? Overall the pictures are sharper than I expected and a little noisier, will be interesting to see how lively the noise is on a large screen once the picture moves... Arri in the UK at least are sending the D20 out with an SRW1 and also a Venom. Idea is that you shoot untethered if you want to with the venom(Arri will call it something else like XXXX pak) Then playout to the SR. At end of the day the client walks away with SR tape equipment goes back to Arri. Venom plays back in real time, (no data transfer mode as far as I'm aware) so I guess you'll need 2 venoms if you can't cope with a cable to the SR. Arri are calling the xxxx pak the primary means of capture. Looks promising. Mike Brennan

The D20 will not output log according to Arri. And are we sure filmstream is actually any better than a decent ad mapping and gamma curves? Mike Brennan

Well on a internet forum everything is just words. Quting others (former chairman of ASC Steven Poster's experience counts for something) By the way how about those times you haven't suspected it was shot digital.. did you check those out too.. maybe they were:) Mike Brennan

I do wish them all the luck in the world but a reality check is in order after not even seeing a frame after a year... As Mike Most allures too, the Kinetta will/should start at the bottom... I hope it will work its way into doing what it does best (whatever that will be) a welcome change from new kit from the big boys that has been pushed on the market with great fan fare at a premum price, sold with glossy brochures, devilishly designed to obfuscate with barely legal representations of features and specifications. The Jeff Kreines approach would be to leave it on a bar during NAB and see what happens.... Next round is on me:) Mike Brennan

At 4.7mm T2.1 the fringing on the edges is very noticable to us, oddly enough the audience do not notice it. Its effect variers from camera to camera too, which could be differences in optical block alignment. At 5.5mm it is much better. The regular HD Fuji zooms and even the zeiss zoom at the wide end are the same. I recently returned a f950 and two Fuji lenses due to colour fringing. We had a viper as a comparison to check the lenses. The point is to tune your eye in to what to expect from these lenses before the shoot, so you know ahh yes this is normal! (usually worse on left side of frame) Anything wider than 6mm on a zoom is apparent, to us at least. If it remains the same on tighter focal lengths its an optical block/ lens mount problem... or a monitor problem. Mike Brennan

Yes me too... or it could have been a kodachrome slide projected in the viewfinder:) Mike Brennan