Steve Mullen

Thank you for the additional information.

Hi Dan, I'll post my reply for others to read. Quote: [1) The S8's sensor is 1/2.5"?] The readout time for full sensor is limited to less than 24fps, so only part of the sensor are is used for normal shooting. Quote: [2) Is the sensor size 5.7mmx2.426, 6.19mm diagonal?] The sensor size for 2592x1104 is full width and part of the height, that gives CinemaScope Panavision Cineon pixel area 2.35:1 that can be cropped and reduced to 2048x858 for making DCP for projection in digital movie theatres, or letter boxed 1920x817 in 1920x1080 for Blu-ray use. Reading your comments, my sense is that aiming for 2:35:1 (2592x1104) pushes the sensor and lens requirements/questions as well as needing cropping in post — something video folks don't want to bother about . Thus, it would seem easier to use one of common 2K resolutions: 2048x1556, (4:3) 2048x1152 (16:9), 2048x1080 (1.90:1), 2048x1024 (2:1). When windowing the sensor for 2K, I'm wondering if the 1556 and/or 1152 fall outside the typical Super8 lenses angle of view? If so -- then the obvious EZ capture option is 2048x1080 (1.90:1) because: It should safely fall within a typical Super8 lens H. and V. angle of view — meaning less worry about corner resolution. The 1.90:1 aspect-ratio matches the common Super35 sensor aspect-ratio. A 1.90:1 aspect-ratio is slightly letterboxed on 16:9 devices -- giving a sense of widescreen "film" without the extreme bars of 2:35:1. I think I'm correct that for a 1920x1080 frame, the vertical dimension must be downscaled by 0.067 to about 1012. "Shooting 2048x1080 gives you two crop choices; 2048x858 for 2.39:1 aspect ratio and 1998x1080 for 1.85:1 aspect ratio." "The sensor area is in ratio to the pixel resolution, but the diagonal is in ratio to the aspect ratio and the total width." I'm lost. None of the current shooting modes use binning because that causes problems with the OLPF and image quality, so the pixels are 0.0022mm square and you can work out the sensor area from that. When I said "oversample" I didn't mean binning. But, your comments lead to two questions: When you use the word "oversample" do you mean in-camera interpolation from the maximum capture window-size to the recording frame-ize OR do mean the scaling in post? It sound like you mean a post operation. So am I correct that each capture size must create different angle-of view when shooting? The prototype KineRAW-S8p has had its shutter values adjusted to reduce the rolling shutter to some extent. How can shutter values be adjusted and yet deliver the expected motion blur? The KineRAW-S8p sensor uses only ONE readout had I have been successful in doing FPN subtraction on that to give a seamless background noise field, that works well for boosting the ISO to grade up shots that are under-exposed. Why do you need to do this if there is only one read-out? (Is the read-out analog or digital?) The larger sensor pixels may not be such a good idea as they may cause soft corners in using some regular 16mm movie camera lenses, and may prevent the use of common 2/3" video lenses. More so at the digital Bolex 2048x1152 resolution. I have been using regular 16mm movie lenses on the KineRAW-S8p with success in particular the Kern Switar and Schneider NON-RX lenses made for 16mm movie cameras and for 2/3" video format cameras. I agree that DB is going to have to deal with many questions about WHICH lenses can be used. Which makes me think that using regular 16mm C-mount lenses on the S8 will throw a much larger than image on the sensor making 2:35:1 (2592x1104) very capture EZ. Correct? Quote: [PS: will KineRAW be at NAB?] I'm going to contact them this week. I live in Vegas. Are you coming? Despite the hype about the DB — I have my doubts they can deliver their fall units at the prices they think. Frankly, I would think it would be foolish to do so. Thank you. Steve

The site destroyed my reply -- so once again: 1) The S8's sensor is 1/2.5"? 2) Is the sensor size 5.7mmx2.426, 6.19mm diagonal? 3) A Super8 lens throws a 5.30mmx4.0132mm, 6.647 diagonal image on the sensor. Which means some of the image is lost going from 6.65 to 6.19? Thus, there is a crop factor. Correct? What is the factor? 4) The S8's sensor is 2592x1102? Or, 2592x1152? I ask because how can a 2592x1102 sensor shoot 2048x1152? 5) When shooting 2048x1102 -- your numbers show the capture area to be much smaller at only 4.5mmx2.536mm, 5.165mm diagonal. But, if the S8 is oversampling 2592 to 2048 then the actual capture size remains the same. Correct? 6) Likewise, when shooting 1920x1080 -- if the S8 is oversampling 2592 to 1920 and 1152/1102 to 1080 -- then the actual capture size remains the same. Correct? We need a segment of cars moving at various speeds past the S8 to see the amount of rolling shutter. Right now the $3200 DigitalBolex with it's CCD chip is going to have a big advantage by offering what the S16 provides at half the price. Which may say the S8 needs to be much cheaper. :) PS: will KineRAW be at NAB?

The difference between RX and nonRX is what is in the gap between the lens back and the film plane. If it is air -- meaning no RefleX prism, use a non-RX lens. This would include the Digital Bolex. If you have a reflex (later model) Bolex, then you need an RX lens. Why? Air and glass treat light rays differently and so slightly modify their travel to the film. So you buy the lens that matches your camera.

First, I'm surprised at the hostility shown to Dan. In a supposedly "pro" group calling someone a "shill" is out of bounds. Secondly, I'm equally surprised that so many don't "grock' what these cameras are about. Of course, one can buy a consumer camcorder or a horrible-handling DSLR that have better specs and provide a "clearer" image. But, if you want true ring driven focus that holds and ring-driven aperture, plus a smooth manual zoom -- for little cost -- you are out of luck. (I've had a Beaulieu and Bolex H8 and H16 -- and today's camera are simply not not FUN to shoot with! Of course, one could shoot film. process it, and then scan it to HD video. But, that seems pointless if one can get a digital FullHD file by using one's computer. The why seems obvious to me. Had the Scarlet arrived at $3000 the S8 and S16 would have no chance. But, at the $3000 to $6000 price range there are no 4:4:4 RAW RGB cameras that record 12-bits. One has to bump to an F3, add S-log firmware, and buy a recorder. Not an economic proposition for MANY folks. (If it is for you, I'm wondering what you are doing reading and replying to posts about Super8!) So assuming current readers really ARE interested in DIGITAL S8 and/or DIGITAL S16 -- here are some questions for Dan. 1) The chip aspect-ratio is about 2.35:1 and Dan says is slightly wider than S8 film. What are its size and diameter? And, how does it work with S8 lenses that were built for 1.33:1? 2) Does it record audio? Details? 3) What is the recorded data-rate of CinemaDNG with audio? How long does it record? Hopefully, at least 15 minutes to a disk! 4) Does it record TIFF images into CinemaDNG? 5) Can you describe the recording system. Is it built in? What drives are required? 6) For Mac users, your software may not run well under BOOTCAMP with Windows XP. But, Adobe has a CinemaDNG plug-in for Premiere. Does it deBayer? If not, any idea how we'll get deBayering and Image adjustments in Premiere? 7) Assuming a software 75% deBayer efficiency, 2592 yields about 1944 LUMA PIXELS. An image scale of 0.74 from 2592 to 1920 means the 1944 becomes 1440. The question I have is HOW will the 1105 be mapped to 1080. My guess is that it will be letterboxed info FullHD. If so, then 1440 will be divided, I think, by 2.35 which reduces H. resolution to 612 TVl/ph. Before folks scream that's not "HD" many big chip cameras at the same price point only offer about 750TVl/ph. 8) I swear I saw a pix of the S8, but can't find it now. Can you snap some pix of all sides of yours and post. Thank you. Steve