Oron Cohen

Hi Kev, Actually 3000$ for 3 weeks is a decent amount of money to get a good camera, do you have any good relationship with any rental house? do you know someone from production that does? I'll def vote against a c100, this is very limiting for a demanding 3 weeks feature. you should try and get at least a C300, if you Canon is what you're after or get someone to rent you a basic Scarlet package, some of those collecting dust at private owners or rental houses, give them a call, say this is the budget you have and see what they say, you'll be surprised. I once got a rental house to agree on a Scarelt+CP2 lenses and accessories for 3K, it's just depends how you approach them, you need to make it clear that you'd like to build a solid relationship with them and you have more projects on the way. You could also try a Blackmagic+CP2. I highly recommend to get decent lenses that you could pull focus properly with or just go with a canon Zoom and a good FF with hard stops, will make your work easier and faster. This is just from my personal experience, I'm sure there are many ways to go about this. p.s- I know you mentioned low light, but I really think that any camera that could go up to 1600ISO is sensitive enough for 90% of situations.

Glad to help a fellow filmmaker. 10 days for a 20min film is 2min screen time a day, which is very generous for a mid-budget short film. I mean, 3-4 min screen time a day make more sense to me, as a low budget 90min feature is usually about 20-30 days at most and averaging 25 and could be sometimes much less (10-15 days). I just shot a 20min short film in 3 days...but it was 2-3 locations which was easier. but it was also well organised on the director and producer side. Get a DP, share with him your ideas, try and check with him if you can make this film for say 7 days, which should be plenty of time for a 20min film, then try to check how you go about lights and how many people the DP needs. I recommend you reading Nestor Almendros "Man With A Camera", he is talking there about small French productions (Eric Rohmer, Moshe Mizrhai) then on big Hollywood productions (Robert Benton, Terrence Malick) and the differences between working on them. Both shot on 35mm, small Art house film got 6-7 crew members and turn a Master piece another big budget got 50 or more crew members and turn a master piece. it's all depends on many factors and the situation, but there is no reason why you can't make this happen on 35mm if YOU decide.

As I said, producers that worked on big budget have this automatic way of saying anything on film is much more expensive, again, I don't see much difference between 35mm and Alexa, if you can get a great deal on a film camera and maybe use cheaper lenses. One question is, how do you know the equipment cost before you consulted a DP? I can't tell you how many times I saved production money and some times I made production pay more. Also, bare in mind sometimes a DP could bring some of his equipment for free or get you better deals on cameras and lights as he got relationships with rental companies. Also, you could work with the DP and discover that you actually could should the film in less time then you initially thought what could save you big $$$.

That's sounds like producers crap talk (no disrespect). A good friend of mine shot a 35mm feature film (90min) that got accepted to Cannes a few years ago and the budget was 200K US including post. The crew consisted of 9-10 people. Camera crew was DP, AC, Gaffer, thats it! The film looks beautiful, all is good. The key point was that the director had vast experience in filmmaking and already shot on film many times and no producer could bullshit him with "you need more equipment when you shoot on film"... it really depends of course on your project, but many times film could save you money, as you might decide to use less lighting, less monitors, less everything...Also, the DP is a big part of what you will might need on set, different DOP's different styles. While one DP would use 5 big lights to light a scene, another one would prefer using more natural light and maybe 2 smaller lights etc. It's very complex to explain the craft over an internet forum, but from what you wrote either your producer never worked on a film shot on 35mm or he worked only on big budgets and learned from them how to inflate production when you shoot on film. I honestly don't see any difference in equipment while choosing Alexa over 35mm, they need the same people and the same equipment more or less. Actually Penelope is a much lighter camera and easier to carry, and you don't need a DIT and hugh amount of space to store all your RAW files. If you want to shoot on film the job of the producer is to make it happen within budget, and for a 30K budget it should be no problem to shoot 2-Perf 35mm, it should actually be a bit cheaper if you get the camera for cheap of even for free with a DOP that owns it. Just saying...

I can't edit or delete my post from some reason, I read the question quickly and missed the fact that Matthew is talking about buying PL Lenses, I guess Cheap and PL just don't go together in my mind and I really feel it's better to rent good glass then buy crap one. Having Said that, GL Optics have some interesting PL options and there is also All Star. In the UK you have truelens that make the amazing Morpheus 80-200. There are also a some old Cooke floating around for sale in the UK, you should call rental houses like Aim Image and ask what they have for sale. I guess if you gave us a budget and what kind of focal range you're looking it would be easier to help.

Hi Matthew, This is a very general question...do you need a full camera package or just lenses? do you need old glass, new glass, ultra sharp, small size lenses? Do you need any other kind of equipment on top, like lights? (some companies offer package deals), Also and probably the most important for how long do you need it for? I think you should make some sort of budget first, it really helps. Usually a rental house will try to help you out if you give them a budget and a time frame. I might could help you further with finding PL lenses in London, but those are basic questions that need to be answered first. feel free to PM me.

You need to remember this is an industry. I'm not sure I agree about the "fanboys buy into it", some of the best DP's in the world have decided to shoot digital, even when they wanted the image to look like film. Roger Deakins said that after he tested an Alexa it looked like a perfect replacement for film to him (he said it in other words), I'm sure Deakins is no fanboy...many Dp's agree with him, so it's more complex than that. But I also agree with what you said, camera companies want to sale more cameras, since digital cinema cameras were introduced they're selling more cameras than ever!

I Hear you Matthew, But in reality the different camera companies (ARRI & RED mainly) are definitely trying to compare their cameras to film and to make them look like film, and have said directly and indirectly many times they aim their cameras replace film cameras. During the 40's when the transition from B&W to colour started, I'm sure everyone where saying similar things, like: B&W should be kept around and we just use each one when we need it, but in reality B&W has become a niche market, maybe 10-20% of films in the 70's where shot B&W, which was about 30 years after the transition started. I'm sure it would be the same with film and digital. I'm totally aware it's not the same in the sense it's colour to colour, but in many ways it's very similar, people adapt new technology, learn it, then put the old technology behind. In the end of day, if there is a market for it, it'll stay. We Cinematographers and Filmmakers need to keep using it! :-) btw - I personally love film and will keep using it and will make anything possible to preserve it, the same as the old generation of filmmakers kept using B&W and preserved it for us to use today.

Tottaly agree about 1080P, for the next 2 years at least, 1080P will still rules, Documentries, commercials, TV dramas and even some films, will all still be shot 1080P. SD cards are also a very good point and I totally agree about compressed raw. As for the Metaboons, they are out of stock for a while now...so if the OP finds one, please let us know from where :)

Hi Freya, I really think it's all a matter of personal opinion. I feel that for me, for most part, 80% of the time when I would like a super35 size sensor and I prefer the get it "out of the box", Not using adapters etc. Again this is just my personal take. your example on Anamorphic/2 pref is Valid, but honestly it's so rare to use this formats. Last time I've checked Panavision for Anamorphic lenses, they said they are booked for the next 8 months or so, lol. The Pocket is a great choice for many, I might get one as well at some point, and which ever camera the OP will get, he will learn and evolve as essentially all those Blackmagic cameras are aimed for Filmmaking/Cinema.

Hi Darmon, Happy to help. 2.5K MFT is a great choice, I prefer the 4K not because it's 4K, but because it's got much less Moire and Aliasing (actually it hardly got any from what I've seen) plus you don't have the rolling shutter effect because of the global shutter. Now, I don't know about you, but all those artifacts could drive me crazy when filming. As for Raw...I'm not sure why you wouldn't want compressed raw? I prefer RED compression system over Blackmagic or Sony for instance. I'm sure you know we're talking here 500GB per one hour of 2.5K Raw, as opposed to say almost 5 hours of ProRes 422 HQ 1080P or about 3.5 hours of RED 4K 7:1 compression. But as I said it's a great choice nonetheless, when you have a bigger shoot, you could always rent an Epic or Alexa. Regarding lenses, GL Optics are now offering a Cine version of the Sigma 18-35mm with over 300º focus rotation and a proper aperture ring etc. For only 3500$ it looks like a great investment, much better than any camera IMHO...http://www.glcinemod.com/english.html

Thanks again for the info. I guess it's not only resolution. If you had softer borders it means it might change the character of a lens. having said that, I do agree with you 100%, making the BMCC for example match Super35 depth of field. So when are they going to get this MFT to EF mount Speed Booster, so we could check it out with the Contax lenses?! :D

Hi Alexandre, Thanks for sharing the info, That's good to know! Although, I've never really did or saw a proper MTF/Chart tests with those adapters, if anyone got a link, will be great.

Hi Darmon, There are a couple of reasons why when I originally posted you an equipment list I wrote the BMP4K and not the Pocket. First, you said you wanted to practise, and as someone that started out on Super16 Film, I feel like I was much better off to start on Super 35 cameras as the use of lenses and F stops is somewhat different and when you get to a professional shoot you want to feel natural at picking up the right lenses/f stop combo, this is why you practise no? It took me a while to get all the different conversions in my head after I started using all the Super35 cameras. But maybe it's just me... You also said Narrative Drama, and again, I feel super35 sensor is better suited for most narrative work except some certain films which you prefer the handheld super16 look("The wrestler" is one example), which I'm not sure the pocket can provide anyway. I know you can get the Speedbooster for the pocket, but I wouldn't want to put a piece of glass between my lens and sensor. for Lenses, I strongly recommend you to get the Sigma 18-35 (or get Zeiss Contax) rather than the Rokinons. I have the Rokinon 85mm and also had the 35mm which I returned, I feel the construction of those lenses are not on par with the Contax and Sigma. Also the Sigma is a real 1.8T stop. The Rokinon, even though rated at 1.5T actually don't really get close to the sigma sharpness till you get to 2.8, The Sigma is tack sharp wide open, plus you get an 18 1.8T which is incredible for 18mm lens :) just my 2c, different people different views...

I just hope, that Aja are not going the same way as Blackmagic, in the sense that "okay, we got a new camera and you will soon get updates etc", then months pass just for us to realise, you can still not even buy the camera...not to mention get updates for it... Personally the camera that caught my eyes the most is the new Red Scralet Dargon, I think the OP might consider saving up a bit for this one, as it is an amazing camera for a filmmaker. 16 stops of Dynamic range, 5K RAW, 4K up to 50FPS...small, light, proven...

Till today from what I know you couldn't use micro 4/3 mount for super35 sized sensor, the mount was capped at micro 4/3 size sensor, this is why Blackmagic couldn't offer it for the 4K version. but apparently this might change know with the new panasonic Varicam.

Hi Alexandre, The F3 actually doesn't have a PL mount, it comes as default with a PL to Sony mount (FZ mount) adapter. the FZ mount also got some lenses of it's own, plus you can find many other adapter for this mount as your links shows. I wish all the new cameras from the likes of Blackmagic and Aja will use this mount for their cameras, but apparently sony do not permit anyone else to use it, as it is one of the selling points for the F5 & F55 and of course F3.

hahaha, a fellow realist :)

I feel like you usually really need an unobtrusive camera about 20% of the time, maybe less, but the big added advantage is the weight of the camera and the size of the accessories (and their price). I can't tell you how much my back heart less from the new smaller cameras in the last couple of years... I got so many back issues from lifting those 10Kg/20pounds+ cameras on my shoulder and on/off tripods. Also lifting the big tripod heads from time to time is not a great experience and realising that in order to mount the camera anywhere you need super expensive rigs and personal, that with most production will create another meeting with the producer trying to reason yourself... on the other hand I really like the Cion shape, reminds me of my beloved Aaton 35III (cat on the shoulder) camera, the Aaton is so well balanced on my shoulder, it's the only camera that doesn't make my back heart after a day of filming.

It seems like the AJA is a PL mount only. That means one need to put aside 5-10K for lenses, even the GL optics Rehouse and Allstar and the old Cooke Zooms are min 4-5K per a lens. Having said that, I really prefer PL, and think that in the long run investing in PL Glass is better and the Cion looks like a lovely designed camera and more ergonomic than the URSA. URSA name just reminds me of the URSA gold Telecine, have anyone noticed Blackmagic also announced a wicked new Film Scanner for 30K? which is a bargain compared to a Spirit.

Yes and No Freya. As we all know, the camera will probably be available in 2015...Also, have you seen the prices on those Cfast 2.0 cards? :) you need at least 4 of those to get you by, plus the camera probably eats much more power (3 screens?!?), so more V-lock batteries as well are needed, plus you'll need a bigger tripod head. we're talking about 10K for workable camera, and you'll still need to get most of the extras like lenses, lights, sound and other bits and bobs. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1032305-REG/sandisk_sdcfsp_120g_a46_120gb_extreme_pro_cfast.html

Hi Darmon, I see you're Australian, so to get a Blackmagic camera serviced should be fairly easy. The Balckmagic 4K got some issues with small portions of cameras, but overall most issues are software related and are not major. Worst come to worst they could always replace the camera for you. I mean for the price, this thing is unbeatable and as you saw from my list, will leave you plenty of cash to spend on other stuff. On a side note, I did put all the prices as if you're from the US, I know Aussieland is more expensive for some of the stuff I listed.

Hey Freya, Thanks! I guess I had all the bits and pieces in my head as I own big chunk of them. As for the FS700, I filmed FS700, FS100 a lot. those cameras are great but I feel the look of the image, which I have really hard time to put in words is not as cinematic as the Blackmagic cameras, I think it might got something to do with the highlights rolloff on the sony vs blackmagic, blackmagic looks more filmic and organic to my eyes, sony clips too fast. I also I feel Apple Prores 422 on board recording for a filmmaker is a killer feature and a big advantage, no need for expensive external recorders to record your image, couple that with the fact the blackmagic cost about half the price, and you'll see where I'm coming from...(I hope).

For narrative work I'd def pass on the FS700, it's a great camera but less for narrative. For 10K my initial list will be slightly different, I will go for: Camera: Blackmagic 4K - 3000$ Tripod: Sachtler ACE M - 600$ Lenses: Sigma 18-35 1.8 - 800$ + Zeiss contax 50mm 1.7+ 85mm 1.4 - about 800$ (when you have more money get the 21mm and 35mm contax as well). Vocas MB210 mattebox or similar - 350$ Lanparte Follow focus - 450$ Base plate: shoot35 or used zacuto mini baseplate - 150-200$ Shoulderpad: Redrock micro or similar - 200$ (get it used if possible) Handels: a few good brands: 200$ (get them used if u can) Battery pinch + battery - 500$ Some bits and pieces (Rods, Israeli arm etc) - 300$ External mic - Sennheiser MKE 600 + some sound Accessories + Zoom H4n - 700$ Extrnal SDI Monitor or EVF ( Samurai Blade or Cineroid) - 1000$ Used 1K and 300W Fresnel + some LED light - about 900$ Total - Nice package for 10K :)

Hi Matthew, As others said, try BBlist, also, are you fixed on ARRI? Because you can try and shop around for Aaton. Generally speaking, DOP's rarely owned 35mm Cameras, even when people where shooting 80-90% film, so there aren't too many cameras to begin with...maybe you should be better off renting when needed. Aimimage are selling a penelope...http://www.aimimage.com/aaton-penelope/ :-)