Travis Shannon

I also just saw the left eye vf extension on ebay and it totally looks like the original non erect Angie vf inside of an extended housing- I wonder if there’s a light loss to account for? Also I know the kinoptik is very popular for more orientable angles but has anyone tried the cinema products orientable finder? I have one in basically mint condition but as I have the original Angie finder on my body I can’t use it as it utilizes a different mount, if anyone has that mount I’d be happy to purchase it. 

7 hours ago, Brian Drysdale said:

I suspect the method used may depend on your budget.

A good bonnet mount (e.g. a beam type) should be solid enough, however, having the actors driving the car while giving intense performances can cause safety problems.

The main issue may be creating consistent rain, which would suggest having the action vehicle on a trailer, with the rainmaker and its water supply on the towing vehicle.

An alternative is to use a LED screen for the background and shoot in a suitable "studio" space, but you will need a suitable lighting rig. Doing this would require having access to suitable facilities.

Rain rig + LED volume seems like a bad time 

Aster does some unique things with sound, as I recall both of these films had their own writeup on asoundeffect, just Google the titles plus sound design, they might go into this.

22 minutes ago, Tyler Purcell said:

I buy broken cameras and re-sell them. That's part of why I've serviced so many. 

Again, I really like the cameras, but I resold cameras as a way to pay bills for 6 years, so I couldn't keep any. 

I mean, sure there are less old French cameras in the US than in Europe, but I've seen plenty of them come in for service. I don't know where people are getting them, but they are very popular in Los Angeles. Probably due to the low cost, sync sound operation, using inexpensive lenses (c mount) which is really nice. 

I don't need to advertise, I have way too much work as it is. People find me through social media, mostly Facebook and Instagram. I generally have around 4 - 6 cameras in for service at any given time. I have an ACL and NPR in for service right now actually, both "new" owners wanting their cameras CLA'd before they start using them. Both came from college fleets that were sold off recently.  I don't market the fact I work on Eclair cameras because frankly, I can't do everything to them. But they are so easy to work on, any tech should be able to re-time, collimate, flange check and CLA no problem at all. 

Nobody uses message boards, so I don't understand why that's even being used as a gauge in 2022. Might as well use eBay, to which there are always ACL's listed by crazies who think they can get $6k for one. 

Also, by your own admission, the top techs who service them have a backlog. So there are plenty of people with them. 

The great thing is, you don't have to believe me. Your belief has no effect on my business. 

It’s interesting that you mention eBay as a gauge since this site doesn’t seem to be one in your mind. The number of completed listings is far more reflective of complete ACLs than broken parts cameras you allude to buying and then repairing (even though you’ve personally said you apparently like the ACL although the vf [one of the most important aspects of a 16mm camera] is “unusable” so it seems an odd practice to partake in) Sourcing parts is also a nightmare as you yourself said so- how you were able to supply over 24 cameras with them is a bit baffling to myself as well. You are correct in that I don’t have to believe you, I choose not to. Apparently business is booming so I hope it keeps up for you, can’t imagine it has much to do with customer service though. 

27 minutes ago, Tyler Purcell said:

Per my post above, "when running" which has nothing to do with the physical glass elements at all. 

The problem is, when the camera runs, there is not very much "image" going into the viewfinder. Thus, it's very hard to determine focus. I've shot with the camera quite a bit, I really like it honestly. I just absolutely hate the viewfinder for the flicker and lack of being able to know if it's in focus during a shot, due to the design, which as you know, was never used again after. 

Again, I really like the camera, so I've worked on dozens of them. First thing I do is pull the movement out because it's so easy to access and those pivot mounts are susceptible to cracking. Most of the cameras come to me because they don't work at all, or they're very loud. Last few I worked on were very recently, I had a collector drop off all of their Eclairs one by one. I'm glad they didn't need any parts because sourcing is a nightmare, but all of them needed major work with gummed up intermediate shafts, very common issue. If you visit my instagram, you can see a few of them I posted on there. 

Tyler, as an ACL owner myself I know a couple things about the camera-

1)There aren’t that many of them, they were primarily used for news gathering but some went into feature production- most of the bodies that went into news gathering died there either from lack of service or were given to/purchased by camera operators in the UK that didn’t take the best of care of them and then became barn finds and 

2)There aren’t that many places that are referred to for ACL service- number one in the US was S16 run by Bernie O’Doherty, Andrew at AZSpectrum also has been a regular technician in addition to duall who used to provide S16 service and finally VP. With four solid houses that were/are quite often backlogged with ACL work I find it very difficult to believe you were also providing that service especially again, as I have been an ACL owner for some years now and have never heard your name mentioned once as someone to go to for that service (nor amcamera which I know you are affiliated with)

Which brings me to my point- I find (among your other fairly dubious claims which are usually used to straw man sometimes legitimate arguments but usually not) your claim of working on multiple dozens of ACLs pretty flimsy, one look at the eclair message board will show the dearth of these bodies even available as unusable parts cameras so you saying you’ve worked on literally over 24 of them when there were at least 4 houses known to be pros and your name is not even in the mix seems like exactly the kind of overstatement I’ve personally come to expect here. I’m not sure what my point is here except that frankly I don’t really believe you, and the picture you are painting doesn’t really hold up.

Gregg, I also miss the downvote button, the participation trophies are not useful.

3 hours ago, aapo lettinen said:

I like to use nimh airsoft batteries with most film cameras, or small 6v gel batteries with the Cameflex and such.

Because I am lazy I have just attached velcro tape on both the batteries and the camera body / magazine / motor or similar flat surface and just smack the battery there without much other mounting. Sometimes I may attach additional velcro piece to secure it further but that is not always needed.  Lazy is the easiest way to go in most cases heh ?

I will have a new motor for the ACL available later this year which replaces all the old electronics. Would allow users making different bases with built in rods for the cameras too because the original electronics which are built into the camera base would not be needed anymore and I can build the new electronics either into the base, into a separate control box connected via cable or into a small box mounted to the motor itself. Display etc. and other advanced features. Just a thought if someone finds it overly difficult to deal with the original design of the camera ?

Hi Aapo,

I’ve heard rumblings about this project on the board but that’s exciting to hear the specifics, like Gregg said definitely keep us posted. And also like Gregg said, I myself would love mirror parking haha. Will you be making them for all different sized ACL bases? Is it crystal?

Oh wow, that’s certainly one solution to recentering the matte box for s16. As long as the trays are side loading it doesn’t look half bad honestly.

In my mind the biggest stumbling block is the single 3/8s point for mounting in the bottom, I’ve had a similar thought - it would be great to have all of this integrated into a baseplate but how do you keep it from rotating? I suppose you could put some kind of a lip in that uses friction to keep the whole thing from twisting? The other issue I suppose would be the battery since there’s so few original acl batteries it seems everyone is using their own homebrew solution which is fine but also how do you make a mount that can receive that many shapes and sizes of batteries? A gold/v solution would be great off the back, somebody should get on a jeager to d tap with an inline voltage regulator. 

Re: Jeager connectors- I bought two xlr to jaeger cables made to order from another member on this forum, Jean Louis Seguin- this was in 2020 so not sure if he still has the connectors but I’d give him a shot.

Nice, fun to see another red top Handle, mine came with the same one- usually they’re blacked out.

7 hours ago, Heikki Repo said:

Well, I think it was Bernie who mentioned that. Then again, perhaps he just meant that one has to readjust the whole system if that's done, one can't just switch the GG and expect it to be in correct focus.

To your point of “one can’t really use a different GG in a particular camera” - When I received my ACL the GG had come unglued and was smashed, one of the first things Bernie did to the body was to put in a brand new GG and while he mentioned how lucky I was as it was one of the few remaining ones he had with s16 markings, he made no mention of it being a whole process to switch out because it was specifically for a different ACL- I suppose you’d have to go to Les or Paul now to confirm that’s true but just wanted to note my camera definitely doesn’t have an original GG and the reflex system works perfectly.

20 hours ago, Ruben Arce said:

I hope Paul Scaglione sees this thread and considers getting the parts they need to convert cameras. I have an ACL that I acquired a few months ago and I wanted to send it to VP to be converted to S16. I would commit to getting the camera converted this year. I know they used to charge around 2.5k and I wouldn't mind paying that to get the camera properly converted here in the US. Maybe if they have a few people committed to getting their cameras converted they would consider getting the parts made.

Seconding this as I personally know two folks with n16 ACLs who were looking to get the same procedure done without sending it out of the states. 

30 minutes ago, Raymond Zrike said:

That’s unfortunate. Did VP mention if they still do any sort of work/repairs on the ACL?

It was a very brief conversation only on the super-ing process, as Chris says I think they’ll still work/overhaul as long as they have parts. 

Bit of bad news for the thread but just called Visual Products this morning (3/21/22) and was informed they are no longer doing ACL super 16 conversions as they don’t have the parts necessary. 
 

I’m going to inquire with Les and see if that’s still an option. 

53 minutes ago, Gregg MacPherson said:

Hey Travis,
Paul Scaglione at Visual Products is still there I think. VP have the reutation for the most thorough and high quality conversions. Les B. will be cheaper but there are less elements to his conversion. There may yet be one or two techs in Europe that are able. 

Trying to remember all the elements for a full ACL conversion by VP (someone let me know if I miss something)....gate, shutter mod, not sure if the mirror is moded, mirror linkage, lens re centred, magnifying block sometimes removed from the ground glass, ground glass re etched by SURCO with VP S16 design, mag rollers machined on S16 edge.

The VP S16 ground glass is very nice to use. Many converted ground glass are crude, not a complete re etch, some do almost nothing at all.

I don't think any ACL conversions ever had machining of the pressure plate, loop formers, guide shoes or drive sprocket. So it seems sensible to think that the later mags with the separate centre pressure plate will be better for S16. Only a very small area is actually  under pressure, just like an SR.

Bruce at Aranda once told me that some people just used unmodified mags for S16, with no problems.

Another option. I have a bare S16 body, no motor, view finder or side handle module, converted by Paul at VP...that I was going to sell. I needs service, it was making a tick, tick, tick noise like the shutter was just touching the body casting. Paul thought it might take only 2-3 hours and would be a CLA. If interested, PM me and I can forward Pauls comments. I noticed it also needs a new 9 pin canon socket, so that will add cost. I have the part already. I don't know how to price this body, so maybe it has to go to eBay....

It used to be the only sane advice was to not convert, just wait and buy an already converted S16 version, save money. But cameras are either super scarce or priced too high by brokers...

PM me if I can help.
Gregg

Gregg, 

thanks so much, you’re a wealth of ACL knowledge and this is much appreciated- I know they already have the ACL body and were just asking about s16 conversion (and I also know the benefits to super-ing do come at a cost but I believe they’re trying to go this route to bring the camera onto more paid work and we all know producers love super over normal) 

I’ll definitely float the option of buying your body and will PM if they want to go for it- again, really appreciate the heads up! 

Hey friends-

Sorry to derail the thread with a question but this seems like the most relevant spot- a friend is looking for a shop to do a super 16 ACL conversion, anybody know who still provides the service? 
Duall did mine but last I spoke with them they have stopped because of parts shortages, going to give them a ring tomorrow to see if that’s still the case. 
offhand I know Les is still doing them but beyond that no real idea, something in the US would be welcome on account of shipping/VAT- any suggestions are more than welcome! 

5 hours ago, Stephen Sanchez said:

The modern digital era hasn't just changed technology's availability and immediate access. It's also impacted the people who've "grown up" in that environment.

I see this in modern kids, who consider smartphones a normal default for immediate entertainment, who get frustrated when they can't "skip" a commercial on Roku TV, or don't understand waiting a week for the next episode.

The trend may seem unrelated, but it encourages less appreciation of time, or planning ahead. If everything is immediate and you don't have to wait, then you'll deal with things as they happen.

That's my take on the subject. I've recognized this new generation of workers in various ways. I once worked with a grip who stared at a joker case and said he didn't know how to set it up. He'd only used LED. So he didn't even know about restrike time, cooling down, lens swapping. All of which take time.

I mean to be fair in this instance- operating a joker is an electric position, not Grip- That’s like asking your gaffer what attachments you need for your Fisher setup.

9 hours ago, Karim D. Ghantous said:

So they made lenses, or modified them? It's odd that they are closing down, seeing as Netflix etc. are producing a lot of new original shows. And with new shows come the need for more hardware.

It isn’t odd, anything serviced through a rental house which will be 99 percent of shows bought by Netflix and the like will already have that gear, Abakus will be missed (especially the b4>s16 adapter) but there’s basically zero between these two markets.

See if he has anymore 7000 dollar 416s laying around.

Talk about ROI

Double perf=2r

Single perf= 1r

The Kodak motion picture buying guide/price list has a very helpful segment on how to read cans.

By the way who is this great cabal you refer to as only “they” that have come together over secret meetings to refer to the ACL as a toy? Wondering if there’s a single citation you can provide (no need for twenty)

1 hour ago, Tyler Purcell said:

I don't want to get into a 20 page argument about it. Thanks, but again if you can't tell the difference between a SR/XTR and an Eclair ACL, I don't know how I can help. 

Nobody asked for twenty pages, two sentences would have been sufficient but in typical Tyler fashion you couldn’t do that so in typical Tyler fashion you just moved the goalposts and told everybody you’re too busy. Glad to know in 2022 some things never change.

Didn’t he just post today that he had to change a bunch of parts over from plastic to aluminum because they were stress fracturing? It’s a cool project but I think it’s a lot rougher around the edges than the IG lets on. 

This really could have been posted in Off-Topic, Daniel.