U.G. Wilson

I have a few updates. First, I ran across Toeppen Film. Rediscovered would be a better word since I found it long ago and forgot about it. At one point the proprietor, Dennis, sold 100' rolls of color stock. I e-mailed Dennis, and he does not have any more of those. I'm apparently one of a few people asking him about it and he's pondering it. I believe @Dennis Toeppen is actually a member on this forum. Regarding Edward Nowill, some issues have disrupted both his life and his film services. At one point he had a prototype line to convert 16mm Single Perf to Vintage 8mm, but his results were "hit or miss". Most of this perforating tooling seems to have gone dull or worn out, however, his 16mm Double Perf to Double 8mm is apparently still functional. References to his perforation have been positive, so this gives me some hope that reperforation is possible. I'm confirming his service offerings, and I've asked him for details on his machine, we'll see what I hear back. For the time being he seems to be offering 16mm 2R film conversion to Vintage 8mm at a rate of £5.00 per 100ft. You mail him your double perf stock and he sends it back with double the holes. I believe Kodak makes factory Vision3 500T and Ektachrome 100D in 16mm 2R right now. I'll continue to update as I learn more. P.S. I've decided I'm going to start calling Standard / Double/ Regular 8mm by "Vintage 8mm". It badly needs a marketing campaign to compete with "Super" 8, and "Vintage" is better IMO, hahahahaa!

I found an address for Edward that seems to deliver. I'll report back.

@Simon Wyss I'm hoping I only need the cutting holes to be broached precisely because the other "punches" are only there to align the film before the cutter impacts. I don't know if that's the trick you're referring to or not. And yes, if it proves too much trouble, I'll probably just find a way to EDM my way out of it. The tool alignment, at least on the Buko machine, seems to be provided by circular guide rods through reamed holes in the tools that are easier to deal with in every regard. I planned to use the same strategy. I'm working on sketches at the moment, will do some drawings from those, and start machining some experiments from there. I have a demanding day job, so the whole thing is going to be slow going. Do you have any specific leads on industrial machine suppliers in NJ that might be holding something like that? @Todd Pinder Fantastic lead, Todd! Thanks! I located an e-mail address and I'm contacting him. If that works, I know it's at least possible, and I can get a near term fix. Update: Oops, the address I found for him is no longer active. Searching for an alternative.

@Simon Wyss I have a non-negligible machine shop and access to more impressive equipment as well. Huntsville is a good town for this kind of thing. As far as the cost goes, the quote on the minimum buy to get the film I wanted perforated was $32,045.00 USD before shipping. So, yes. I do believe I can make a simpler, precise, and slower running machine for less than that. It would not be suitable for production manufacturing at scale, but it would let me perforate at the pace needed to feed my beasts. Now will the machine work in the end? Got me, bud! Probably not, but damn if I won't learn a lot while trying! Hahaha! And yes, I am mentally prepared to be making an upsetting number of broaches. Additionally, I don't have to build the entire machine to find out if it's going to work. The hard part is and always will be the punch and die. If I can make that work, then the rest of the project is already solved problems. @Heikki Repo Yes, I currently shoot the color stock from the FPP. However, those only come in 25' rolls and I want 100' color stock (preferably positive) for my Bolex H-8. I e-mailed back and forth with Mike at FPP and understand that this is not an offering they plan to add. I asked about adding 3 or 4 400' spools onto their next perforation purchase, but got no response to that. Frankly, I also want to see if I can push out the feedable lifetime of my Double 8mm cameras. It seems inevitable to me that, FFP and Foma will eventually stop producing/perforating it. Frankly, if this experiment fails, then I'll probably abandon Double 8mm and switch to 16mm permanently. I've also considered taking cameras like the old Revere 8s and converting them to digital, but that's an even less preferable plan. @Doug Palmer I agree, Doug. The cameras are much sturdier and easier to repair than Super 8 cameras. Long after all the worlds Super-8 cameras are dead, there will still be serviceable Double 8's. That being said, I can still see why folks would shy away from 8mm. The images produced by Super 8mm and 16mm are "better" in most cases, the cameras that shoot it are harder to operate than Super 8mm, etc. I think it has a dream-like quality that the other formats don't. When I look at 8mm footage, I think to myself, "That's how I remember it!" The more and more rendered detail, the more I'm being told exactly what happened, rather than being reminded what happened. I also know that I can keep the hardier 8mm equipment running until I'm dead. I can't say the same of Super-8 cameras.

Thank you for the resources! Yes, the indexing is definitely the biggest problem and the whole thing is definitely a big science experiment. My hope is that I can use multiple guides in the punch tool to index to center. Conceptually, I want to clone the lead indexer (in image with the green arrow) into the second 16mm perf position (the blue arrow in the image) and slightly widen the pitch gap between the indexers enough to center the middle punch that cuts the new hole. I am skeptical about this approach when it comes to perforating the other side of the film, but if I can at least get it working on one side then I can try starting from double perf stock 16mm. But yes, this is crazy, but it's also fun.

Hello, I'm new here. I'm an crazed engineer with a machine shop who likes shooting Double 8mm. I've searched around enough to know that topics like this have come up a few times, but I'm afraid I'm going to put everyone through it again. Does anyone know where I can get the dimensional specs for 16mm and double 8 film? My measurements of samples seem to confirm that the difference between 16mm and double 8mm is that the 8mm has identical perforations at half the pitch and they are running down both sides instead of one. I think there is an SMPTE standard for both mediums, but no one there seems interested in helping me locate them to purchase them. I've harvested most of the videos on youtube of operating film perforators and have an idea to make a more simplified and slower running version to convert 16mm single perf to double 8. I've also searched for existing 16mm machines to restore or modify, but the auctions I've found are approaching a decade in age and the suppliers I've spoken with say they haven't seen one for even longer than that. Why? Because I like Double 8, I want 100 ft rolls of color stock to run through my H-8, and I'm an insane person. I've already contacted Wittner about their Double 8 perforating, but I can't afford the minimum buy of 50 400' spools. TL;DR Does anyone know the exact dimensions, or know where I can locate the dimensions of, both 16mm and Double 8mm film? Does anyone know the location of a "for sale" perforator suitable for restoration or modification?