Dialogue with non synch camera

Alex Opdam · August 31, 2004

Hi everyone,

I have been playing around with video for a while now but am just itching to start shooting film (but as low a budget as possible).

Financial reasons have basically kept me from taking the risk of grabbing a camera and shooting some rolls, but after some recent work helping out with ADR recording it has got me thinking that it may not be so bad after all.

If i was to:

1) get a non synched and loud camera like a bolex or scoopic 16m

2) shoot my film, getting a guide track with a cheap tape recorder and mic

3) telecine the lot

4) synch up the guide track in premiere

5) record new dialogue (carefully) using the 'guide' track

6) slap on an atmosphere track

Would this look passable?

My main concern is that with the non-exact 24fps that the dialogue would look choppy, but i figure the difference is so slight and they are recording it TO the final footage, there should be no real problem.

What are the general thoughts here guys? I know it isn't ideal, but i just think that at least at the end of the day i can guarantee clear crisp sounding dialogue which is the main noticable problem with no-budget films the likes of which i'd be making. Secondly, i need to save as much money as i can these days so the price difference between say a scoopic and a acl is significant - plus it saves me the purchase of a boom mic and equipment.

Opinions are welcome.

Cheers,

Alex

August 31, 2004

It's doable but hard work. Keep the dialogue to a minimum. Shoot lots of coverage to cut away to when the audio drifts.

Then borrow a bolex, shoot a roll, get it telecined and see for yourself how much you like post dubbing and how you like the results. If you like it, then commit to it, pros and cons alike, and don't listen to the "do it the right way" noise machine.

It's your film, you can do whatever you want.

That's my two cents.

best of luck--

EH

Phil Rhodes · August 31, 2004

Hi,

If you ADR it, then you're relying on sync between your video playback and audio recording, which will probably both be digitally controlled from a crystal-based timebase - so it should be fine. However, your guide tracks may drift wildly from the original picture, and ADR is generally considered a last-resort.

Really the success of this depends on how good your cast end up being at ADR.

Phil

LangISback · September 22, 2004

Have you seen El Mariachi?, this movie was done enirely with an Arri 16s (louder than a blender). Take a look a t it, it never goes out of sync... tough... Robert Rodriguez did it this way: First, he filmed the actors with no sound, only the camera running (they, off course were acting and speaking naturally). Then a second (or third or fourth, whatever) take but only for sound, no camera rolling. After that lots of cover shots, insert shots. Later in the editing room he took the inconvenience of synchin all the movie as best he could, when there was no choice he changed the shot for an insert or a shot from the other character listening, etc. The advantage of doing it this way is that you have a more natural sound with ambience, plus you don't have to call the actors that much for dubbing.

I'll do it the same way, but I would include refference sound in the camera takes, just to make it easier to sync later.

hoe this helps,

:)

Riku Naskali · October 5, 2004

Yeas, it can be done. You just propably have to strech the audio just a little bit to match when the camera drifts. I would also suggest to record sound after takes. ADR will also hurt actors' performances.

There are some devices for super8 cameras that record a pulse reference signal, so the audio can be synced even when the camera drifts. I think it can be done with 16mm as well, if you can get a flash signal out of the camera.

Eoin McGuigan · October 8, 2004

i've not read through all of these posts so someone else may have said it, but it's not too hard. we used a clapper on camera to sync it w/ our DAT and then made sure our editor had it all lined up. it turned out rather well, just...try and get a quiet camera :) or have lots of noise!