Anyone shot with Film Photography Project FPP40 16mm BW reversal film?

[Mark Eastman]

I recently got results back of shooting a roll of Film Photography Project's 16mm FPP40 40 ASA black and white reversal double perf amateur film on a vintage Bell & Howell 70DR

Has anyone else used this 16mm film?

I had it processed by a lab in Southern California. I shot my roll as a test roll on a well used vintage Bell & Howell 70DR camera.

I exposed based on the shutter speed spec of the 70DR camera at 24 FPS.

Results were 2 to 3 stops all overexposed.

Was it:

1. Camera shutter speed off for 24FPS?

2. Actual sensitivity of the FPP40 bw reversal film?

3. How the lab developed the film? 

I did a range of exposure tests, but not the full aperture range, that I would do next time with an old vintage camera of unknown condition.

On the film, Film Photography Project would not tell what film this is as they said it was proprietary, understood  (ORWO?)

Next time will stick with Kodak films I've shot that I know what they do.

Mark

Mark Eastman
Palo Alto, California USA

 

Edited May 16 by Mark Eastman

[Simon Wyss]

Maybe they mistook ORWO UN 54 for Kodak Plus-X reversal what FPP 40 actually is.

UN 54 is an ISO 100 negative film. The reversing process increases effective speed by about 100 percent.

[Okto Simaia]

You’re saying FPP 40 is Plus-X or it’s UN 54?

[Simon Wyss]

FPP 40 is Kodak Plus-X reversal. There was also Plus-X negative film. ORWO U(niversal) N(egative) type 54 reverse processed would yield an effective sensitivity of ISO 200.

The Kodak reversal films PXR, TXR, and 4XR are negative stocks with a few changes to them. They are coated on blue or grey triacetate base, which didn’t hurt with TV but covers detail in the brightest areas at projection.

You can reverse every negative film but you can’t develop any reversal stock to a negative. For instance, Fomapan R(eversal) 100 that has a pure silver layer between base and photographic coating turns out black after simple development. The silver needs to be bleached and dissolved out to free the image. What’s the purpose of this silver layer? The same as the dyed film base, it’s a halo protection. What is halo? The effect is known since glass plate photography was begun, the unwanted glow around highlights caused by excess light bouncing back from the first and from the second glass surfaces into the photographic layer. If you shoot on print film such as Kodak 2302/3302 or ORWO PF 2 you have that.

Please, newbies, read some books.

[Joerg Polzfusz]

On 5/16/2024 at 5:01 AM, Mark Eastman said:

Camera shutter speed off for 24FPS?

If the camera’s shutter speed was „off enough“ to produce 2-3 f-stops overexposure, then the camera would have to also record the actual transport of the film. (Underexposure is a different topic, especially when using cameras with a variable shutter that might be damaged or that might have been accidentally ignored when setting the f-stop.)

What shutter speed did you calculate with?

Which lightmeter did you use? Was it designed before 1960, when the ASA-rating-system was drastically changed (ASA PH2.5-1960)? And are you sure that it’s using an ASA-scale (instead of Weston, GE, Scheiner, DIN, GOST, ISO, …)?

[Mark Eastman]

I used 1/40th of a second exposure for 24FPS on the 70DR. I measured exposure with a modern Gossen Digital Luna Pro F at the cinema settings and the ambient dome. I know the meter is accurate from previous results.

 Mark

Mark Eastman

Palo Alto, California

 

 

[Joerg Polzfusz]

Hi Mark,

1/40 s at 24fps makes sense as the shutter seems to have a 207° opening.

No offense regarding the light meter. I only noticed that the production of the camera started before the „ASA update“. Hence, you might have used a light meter that came with the camera and that is as old as or even older than the camera.

Does anyone know the differences in developing B&W reversal? At least Andec is processing the Kodak-reversal filmstocks separately from Foma/ORWO/Russian stocks. When the lab has mistaken your Kodak-film with ORWO-film, it might be a problem caused by them… (But that’s just a wild guess. I have not got any clue about developing.)

[Simon Wyss]

204.

[Mark Eastman]

On 5/16/2024 at 9:57 PM, Simon Wyss said:

FPP 40 is Kodak Plus-X reversal. There was also Plus-X negative film. ORWO U(niversal) N(egative) type 54 reverse processed would yield an effective sensitivity of ISO 200 [

[snip] 

Please, newbies, read some books.

Hi Simon,

Thanks for clarifying. What is the current availability of Kodak Plus-X in 16mm? It appears to have been discontinued long ago, at least from Eastman Kodak.

On books, besides the standard cinematography related books (Cinema Workshop, American Cinematographer Manual, etc.) and current film manufacturer data sheets, if you have any recs on books that cover current cinema film stocks, this would be appreciated.

Thanks

Mark

Mark Eastman
Palo Alto, CA USA

(My grandfather's name was George, but unrelated to the big E)

[Mark Eastman]

On 5/15/2024 at 10:10 PM, Simon Wyss said:

Maybe they mistook ORWO UN 54 for Kodak Plus-X reversal what FPP 40 actually is.

UN 54 is an ISO 100 negative film. The reversing process increases effective speed by about 100 percent.

I emailed Michael Raso at Film Photography Project about my problem with their BW40 film and he stated that this film is not Kodak Plus-X. 

Mark

Mark Eastman
Palo Alto, CA 

[Simon Wyss]

That makes it difficult to imagine what stock they’re using. ISO 40?

[Joerg Polzfusz]

Are there any edge markings on the film that marks it as Svema, Agfa, Orwo or Fuji?

[Mark Eastman]

8 hours ago, Joerg Polzfusz said:

Are there any edge markings on the film that marks it as Svema, Agfa, Orwo or Fuji?

No edge markings on the processed roll.

Mark

Mark Eastman

Palo Alto, CA

[Simon Wyss]

It could be ORWO DN 2, cut to 16 by FilmoTec, perforated in Wolfen as well or by Wittner.