Genesis Questions

[Elhanan Matos]

Earlier today I got a call from a friend of mine, asking me if I wanted to come by on a spec shoot he's shooting on the Genesis. Since I was already working all day today I couldn't make it out to the prep and really get to mess around with the camera over at panavision, but I did make it out to the last three hours of the shoot in downtown LA where we shot under some mercury vapor street lights. It was all very interesting stuff and I'll try and get some stills from my friend when he goes to edit it.

 

Well tomorrow were going to be on a stage all day so i'll have some time to really study the camera inbetween shots. So if any body has any questions about the camera and they get them posted here sometime before 12:00 PM Pacific Time on Wednesday Feb. 8 I will do my best to get them answered while I'm on set.

[Brad Grimmett]

If you have a scale nearby will you weigh the camera? I'm still not sure of the actual weight, but it would be nice to know. I'm sure that's not the kind of question you were expecting.....but if you can do it, it would be good info.

Thanks.

[Elhanan Matos]

If you have a scale nearby will you weigh the camera? I'm still not sure of the actual weight, but it would be nice to know. I'm sure that's not the kind of question you were expecting.....but if you can do it, it would be good info.

Thanks.

 

 

It's pretty heavy for a video camera... but i'll try and weight it tomorrow.

[Richard Vialet]

i'm probably the only person that doesn't know this already...

 

i've only seen pictures of the camera, and I wanted to know: That appendage at the top that resembles a film camera's displacement magazine, is that the camera's hard drive? If not, what is it?

[Keith Mottram]

i'm probably the only person that doesn't know this already...

 

i've only seen pictures of the camera, and I wanted to know: That appendage at the top that resembles a film camera's displacement magazine, is that the camera's hard drive? If not, what is it?

 

 

Its a Sony SR recorder.

 

Elhanan, I'd love to know what the viewfinders like to work with, is it similar to an accuscene? what is the resolution and how are the operators finding it?

 

thanks,

 

Keith

Edited February 8, 2006 by keith mottram

[David Mullen ASC]

i'm probably the only person that doesn't know this already...

 

i've only seen pictures of the camera, and I wanted to know: That appendage at the top that resembles a film camera's displacement magazine, is that the camera's hard drive? If not, what is it?

 

The Sony SRW1 portable HDCAM-SR tape deck is a two-part device. Panavision built the control unit into the camera and the tape drive eternally so it could be mounted differently or left off and cabled to the control unit. Take a look here to see what the SRW1 looks like:

 

http://bssc.sel.sony.com/BroadcastandBusin...sp=143&id=76234

[Brad Grimmett]

It's pretty heavy for a video camera... but i'll try and weight it tomorrow.

Cool. Thanks. I've picked it up and know it's pretty heavy, I just don't know the exact weight.

[Dan Goulder]

Does anyone know of a post facility that's currently using the SRW1 for telecine? I'd be curious to see what 35mm footage looks like when transferred in the HQ (880 mps) mode at 2:1 compression. Are the upcoming Genesis productions being shot in this mode, or SQ (440 mps)?

Edited February 9, 2006 by dgoulder

[David Mullen ASC]

I believe quite a few of the major post houses in LA have an HDCAM-SR option, especially those offering a lower-cost approach to D.I. work.

 

However, I thought the studio HDCAM-SR deck does not offer a dual-link 880 Mb/sec option, so the question is how are they handling 4:4:4? At 440 Mb/sec with more compression?

[Dan Goulder]

I believe quite a few of the major post houses in LA have an HDCAM-SR option, especially those offering a lower-cost approach to D.I. work.

 

However, I thought the studio HDCAM-SR deck does not offer a dual-link 880 Mb/sec option, so the question is how are they handling 4:4:4? At 440 Mb/sec with more compression?

Yes. I've had 35mm footage telecined to HDCAM SR 4:4:4 in the standard (SQ) mode, which is 440 mps at 4:1 compression. I recently had a film out test of this footage by E-film. They and I were both very happy with the results projected on a large screen (anamorphic). The original footage was 2-perf.

[Elhanan Matos]

Its a Sony SR recorder.

 

Elhanan, I'd love to know what the viewfinders like to work with, is it similar to an accuscene? what is the resolution and how are the operators finding it?

 

thanks,

 

Keith

 

 

Keith,

 

The viewfinders you can use for the Genesis are the same viewfinders you can put on an F900 and F950. On our shoot we used the Sony Color Viewfinder (HDVF-C30W). What was very interesting to find out was that with the 35mm depth of field it was nearly impossible to focus with that viewfinder without using the magnify feature. It would have been much easier with the accuscene (panavision rents out the Accuscene as well).

 

One neat feature the camera does have is two viewfinder outputs, as well as a monitor output. We didn't use two viewfinders so I'm not sure if they both work at the same time, but in the VF page in the menu there are settings for a VF1 VF2 and Monitor, so you can send out different frame lines to each of those.

[Elhanan Matos]

I attached a couple pictures of the camera that I took with my phone. I tried my best to remember what every output and button did and labeled them. I took better pictures with my still camera, but I need to get the film developed.

 

Hopefully I'll get to work with the camera again soon and get to test it thoroughly.

[Guest Jim Murdoch]

Does anybody know any web sites where you can view stills from Superman Returns?

 

I saw some pictures the other day in a magazine on a news stand (don't ask me the name of it) but the reproduction wasn't all that good. I didn't buy the magazine because I was sure I'd be able to download them somewhere, but I haven't had any luck.

 

I'll probably have to go back and get the name of the mag to see if they have a web site, but does anybody else know anything?

[Guest Jim Murdoch]

I've finally found one, but I wonder what I'm looking at:

Brandon Routh/Superman

Is this a still from a Genesis? Siegel did actually mention that they were going for a "comic book" look for the picture, and it looks like they've acheived it :(

[Max Jacoby]

Yep, the trailer looked like that as well. Looks like they are pushing the look established in X2 even further. Not my cup of tea at all. But then again Siegel is not one of my favourite Dops anyway.

[Brad Grimmett]

Boy, that red is just bad in my opinion. What happened to the superman red that we all knew and loved?

[Guest Jim Murdoch]

Yep, the trailer looked like that as well. Looks like they are pushing the look established in X2 even further. Not my cup of tea at all. But then again Siegel is not one of my favourite Dops anyway.

Urrr... So just as the "soot and whitewash" B&W treatment of "Sin City" isn't really much of an advertisement one way or the other for Sony's 2/3" HDTV cameras, the first big-time Genesis outing isn't really going to tell us bugger-all either!

 

Well, not so much "first big time" as pretty much just "first time"

 

So, when are we going to a serious mainstream Genesis production that Panavision didn't control with security guards?! I've been waiting for over two years now! (Yes, I knew about the Genesis before it was announced or even called that!)

 

This is getting positively surreal! Chrissake, has ANYBODY got any footage that we're allowed to see?! And no I don't want to hear about the f*cking Davieu test, unless it's directions to where I can see it myself!

[Keith Mottram]

I believe quite a few of the major post houses in LA have an HDCAM-SR option, especially those offering a lower-cost approach to D.I. work.

 

However, I thought the studio HDCAM-SR deck does not offer a dual-link 880 Mb/sec option, so the question is how are they handling 4:4:4? At 440 Mb/sec with more compression?

 

David,

 

Although I have only used the SRW-5500 in 4:2:2 mode, it is definately a native 4:4:4 deck with dual in and out HD-SDI ports for both recording and playback of 4:4:4 material.

 

Keith

[Stephen Williams]

David,

 

Although I have only used the SRW-5500 in 4:2:2 mode, it is definately a native 4:4:4 deck with dual in and out HD-SDI ports for both recording and playback of 4:4:4 material.

 

Keith

 

Keith,

 

Thats correct, but at 440mb/sec as David thought.

 

Stephen

[Keith Mottram]

Keith,

 

The viewfinders you can use for the Genesis are the same viewfinders you can put on an F900 and F950. On our shoot we used the Sony Color Viewfinder (HDVF-C30W). What was very interesting to find out was that with the 35mm depth of field it was nearly impossible to focus with that viewfinder without using the magnify feature. It would have been much easier with the accuscene (panavision rents out the Accuscene as well)

 

 

Elhanon,

 

This was exactly as I feered, personally the accuscene is hard enough to get accurate focus pulls with- I tried it hand held with a Viper and digiprimes wide open and that was a nightmare so god knows what it would be like with a crappy sony viewfinder and some opened up 35mm primes. this is a real shame as one of the only benefits of the Genesis over the D20 is the tidyness of the docked SR deck, but if you cant accurately focus through the viewfinder then that removes a large portion of the tetherless benefits this creates.

 

Cheers for the info,

 

 

Keith

 

PS Thanks Stephen for the info, I'll take a bit of compression over an STwo though anyday (unless it was... well you get the idea)

[Kevin Zanit]

The point is you can rent either the Sony or the Accuscene. If you can?t get one from Panavision, you could sub-rent one from somewhere else; because I believe they have extra mounting brackets for it.

 

The Sony viewfinder is not an issue in most situations, especially a stage setting. That?s the point of using a real monitor.

 

Also, getting good focus with any 35mm camera wide open, handheld, with no marks is a big challenge; I wouldn?t recommend doing it with any camera or any format.

[Tenolian Bell]

So, when are we going to a serious mainstream Genesis production

 

Apocalypto may be that film. Directed by Mel Gibson, DP Dean Semler

 

Looks like a serious big historic film that is generally shot on anamorphic.

 

This may be one of the films HD has been awaiting to give it more legitimacy.

 

The trailer

 

http://www.apple.com/trailers/touchstone/apocalypto/hd/

[Elhanan Matos]

Elhanon,

 

This was exactly as I feered, personally the accuscene is hard enough to get accurate focus pulls with- I tried it hand held with a Viper and digiprimes wide open and that was a nightmare so god knows what it would be like with a crappy sony viewfinder and some opened up 35mm primes. this is a real shame as one of the only benefits of the Genesis over the D20 is the tidyness of the docked SR deck, but if you cant accurately focus through the viewfinder then that removes a large portion of the tetherless benefits this creates.

 

Cheers for the info,

Keith

 

PS Thanks Stephen for the info, I'll take a bit of compression over an STwo though anyday (unless it was... well you get the idea)

 

 

Keith,

 

I couldn't agree with you more. It's very hard to judge focus with either the Sony or the Accuscene, at least without using the magnify feature, or using the peaking.

[Guest Jim Murdoch]

Apocalypto may be that film. Directed by Mel Gibson, DP Dean Semler

 

Looks like a serious big historic film that is generally shot on anamorphic.

 

This may be one of the films HD has been awaiting to give it more legitimacy.

 

The trailer

 

http://www.apple.com/trailers/touchstone/apocalypto/hd/

Mel....Gibson...?

 

Whatever. Well I waited for 15 minutes and the download still didn't finish, and I've got a pretty fast Internet connection so I gave up. In any event, it's pretty hard to judge image quality on the average internet download. Isn't there anywhere where we can see some stills?

 

Call me a sceptical old scumbag curmudgeon if you like, but why doesn't anybody want us to see any of their Genesis footage? OK maybe with a movie like Star Wars or even Superman Returns they can claim they're worried about pre-empting their merchandising, but surely movies like this one or Flyboys don't come into that category. You'd think any publicity would be good publicity.

[Michael Most]

In any event, it's pretty hard to judge image quality on the average internet download. Isn't there anywhere where we can see some stills?

 

It's just as difficult to judge image quality with small stills, especially JPEGs on Internet sites. The only real way to judge image quality is to see it projected, or at the very least, displayed on an HD monitor from the original tape master. Those are the intended display formats, and those are the only ones that allow you to truly see what they have created.

 

Call me a sceptical old scumbag curmudgeon if you like, but why doesn't anybody want us to see any of their Genesis footage? OK maybe with a movie like Star Wars or even Superman Returns they can claim they're worried about pre-empting their merchandising, but surely movies like this one or Flyboys don't come into that category. You'd think any publicity would be good publicity.

 

Okay, I'll bite. You're a skeptical old scumbag curmudgeon, with a history of despising all things Panavision (I added the last part). The fact that the studio doesn't want to release images from Superman Returns has nothing to do with what it was shot on and everything to do with protecting their potential franchise restarter. "Any" publicity is not necessarily good if it reveals more than they want to reveal. From everything I've heard (I know some of the VFX people) they are quite proud of the imagery and very happy with the results they got.