5212 - grainy blue layer?

[Tony Brown]

I'm not a big fan of this stock, but had to use it recently when we couldn't get 5248.

 

It looked quite grainy in blue sky areas of the frame, exposure was for foreground which was netted back 1 stop so b/g including sky was a stop over key exposure. Transferred using Spirit and we had to use noise reduction which was surprising.

 

Has anyone else noticed this?

 

Any thoughts John?

[Eric Steelberg ASC]

off the subject, but

 

Lately I've noticed alot of DVDs and an film I did in which the IP was used for the final tranfser there was alot of grain and density flickering...that's the best I can describe it. The DVD of Lost in Traslatino has this as well, like many other films I've noticed.

 

I'd love to hear what John has to say about it.

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

I'm pretty sure 5212 is the ISO200 Vision2 stock.

 

Phil

[Tony Brown]

Are you in the right thread Phil?

 

5212 is 100asa

 

5217 is the 200.

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

No, I'm just an idiot. I didn't even know they had a 100ASA vision stock!

 

Grain, what grain?

 

Phil

[John Pytlak RIP]

In a tungsten balance film, the blue sensitive layer needs to be the fastest, and therefore typically has the largest grains. You should not expect the blue grain of a EI500 film to match that of a EI100 film, even with the improvements that Kodak VISION2 technology has made.

 

Most of the visual impresssion of sharpness and grain are from the green record -- about 60%. 30% comes from the red, and only 10% from the blue.

[Tony Brown]

You should not expect the blue grain of a EI500 film to match that of a EI100 film,

I think you misread my post John - this was 5212 100asa,

 

it was a problem we've never experienced before with 5248

[John Pytlak RIP]

Would be interesting to know if it was graininess or electronic noise due to the overexposure (higher negative density) in the sky. You may want to share your result with the folks at Hemel Hempstead.

[Jarin Blaschke]

John:

 

Would it then be advisable to use a daylight stock outdoors where there will be large expanses of sky, since for a given speed, a daylight film will have tighter grain in the blue-sensitive layer? Clear skies typically show large amounts of grain, being vast areas of a single, featureless tone.

 

Could a film be manufactured where the blue-sensitive layer is at the surface of the film, and not filterted through the other two layers? It seems that blue should be the layer with the finest grain, since vast areas of sky are more likely to be recorded than great featureless areas of red or green. Or is this less light-efficient overall since the other two layers are basically being exposed through a blue filter?

[John Pytlak RIP]

Yes, a daylight balance film can have a slower (i.e., finer grained) blue sensitive layer. The blue sensitive layer IS the topmost imaging layer on color negative films, and is typically the sharpest for the reason you state.

 

Here is the MTF curve for 5212. Note the sharpest is the blue, then the green, then the red (just like the layer order).

 

http://www.kodak.com/global/images/en/moti...ve/5212_mtf.gif

[Tony Brown]

This was grain, electronic noise looks very different. I'll send a mail to Kodak in France, this was a job shot in Marseilles and graded in Paris.