Negative Cutting Different Stocks

[J. Anthony Gonzales]

In the process of conforming negative, is there a general rule as to cutting together different film stocks? If you have more than one filmstock for a given film, do you need to AB roll the stocks or can you splice two different stocks together on the same roll? This may seem like a naive question, but then, I am a little naive on this topic.

 

Thanks,

 

John G.

[Dirk DeJonghe]

In our lab most of the time the entire film is negcut in a single strand (A-roll only) if no dissolves are needed and if the negative is all-color or all-B&W.

 

We use the 0.7mm wide Hammann splicer that makes a diagonal cut and where cuts can be made without losing a frame on either side. We also found this method more stable (splices not jumping) than AB-rollls. When going from neg to black spacer there always seems to be a slight pitch change in the perforations making the splice slightly unsteady. These single strand splices are invisible in 1.85 format blow-up from Super 16 if no hairs are caught in the splice.

 

The first exception to this is when the negatiive contains both color and black-and-white negatives and the customer doesn't want to go to the additional expense of having a B&W interpositive/ color dupneg.

The reason to separate B&W and color in this case is because the fiilm printer needs a different filterpack to make up for the lack of orange masking on the B&W stock.

 

If the film contains optical dissolves, then we still do most of the shots on a single rolll, and change strands just for the shots to be dissolved.

 

I believe that having all the shots in sequence on a single strand is better for grading uniformity and printing.

 

If making a contact 16mm print, then the printer light changes cannot be hidden and an AB cut negative might be advised. On optical printers, the light changes are invisible because they fall during the shutter closed period.

 

 

Dirk DeJonghe

www.color-by-dejonghe.com

[David Mullen ASC]

Yes, for 16mm, A-B checkerboard cutting is recommended. But for 35mm, single-strand cutting is the norm except for A-B printer effects (fades and dissolves) and if a stock requires a radical change in printer lights (b&w stock, cross-processed reversal, bleach-bypassed negative intercut into normal color negative stock.)

[J. Anthony Gonzales]

Very cool. Thanks for the info guys.

 

On the experimental front, what about mixing MP negative with still film negative? Can you workprint and conform still negative with MP, or should you go with an IN for the still stuff, then workprint that?

 

John G.

[Sam Wells]

We use the 0.7mm wide Hammann splicer that makes a diagonal cut and where cuts can be made without losing a frame on either side. We also found this method more stable (splices not jumping) than AB-rollls. When going from neg to black spacer there always seems to be a slight pitch change in the perforations making the splice slightly unsteady. These single strand splices are invisible in 1.85 format blow-up from Super 16 if no hairs are caught in the splice.

Re Hammann (Hamnas ?) splicer - Just to make sure I'm reading this correctly, you do not zero cut S16 blowups ?

 

-Sam

[David Mullen ASC]

You need to zero cut 16mm neg if you plan on directly blowing up from 16mm neg to 35mm positive (print or I.P.) If you plan on going to a 16mm positive using a contact printer, you don't need to zero cut.

 

I don't know about mixing still camera film, but since there is no 16mm still camera negative, it would not be an issue unless you are talking about 35mm. One problem might be the difference in perfs for MP neg versus still film, but that may be more of a steadiness problem. The color mask is a little different with still camera neg but not radically enough to require a B-roll I would think.

[Sam Wells]

You need to zero cut 16mm neg if you plan on directly blowing up from 16mm neg to 35mm positive (print or I.P.) If you plan on going to a 16mm positive using a contact printer, you don't need to zero cut.

With the Hamnas (the name I know it by, but I want to make sure I'm talking about the same thing that Dirk is) I'm not sure this is true.

 

I've seen (but not done) 16 > 35 blowups done without zero cuts, AFAIK done with this splicing block and they did not jump or breathe at the cut point.

 

Interesting that Dirk DeJohnge suggests a pitch mismatch from OCN to black leader a contributing factor splice point jumping...

 

-Sam

[David Mullen ASC]

It's not because of splice jumps that zero cutting is recommended for direct blow-ups from 16mm neg to 35mm positive, but due to some sort of delay in printer light changes in the type of optical printer typically used.

[Sam Wells]

Why ? You can just stop an optical printer !

 

Actually, it's zero cuts on 16 > 16 contact printed material that pose the printing light problem because the light has to be cut so as to not print the overlap "handle" frames that you don not want to see. Most contact printers can't get the valves closed fast enough so you can see what is like a 1/3 frame fade - really a dissolve on zero cut A&B rolls as it's happening in and out both.

 

I have zero cut 16mm and have seen this on a contact print.

 

I'm told there are 16mm contact printers on which this will not happen but they are rare.

 

-Sam

[Dirk DeJonghe]

Sam,

 

We stopped using the 'classic' hot splicer about 15 years ago. There is no comparison in the quality between the Hammann system and any other 1924 technology hot splicer.

 

Before a new negative cutter is allowed to work on customer film, he/she needs to make about 1000 splices on junk film to be sure they get the procedure right. Once mastered these splices are amazing, even on S16 we can cut and resplice without loosing frames. Also there is no dust generated because there is no scraping of the emulsion.

 

Dirk DeJonghe

www.color-by-dejonghe.com

[Dirk DeJonghe]

Sam,

 

Regarding the optical printer: we use two Seiki printers for blow-up, reduction and 1:1. They have a shutter just like a film camera and the light changes fall in the dark period when the shutter is closed and when the film is being transported to the next frame. We do a lot of direct blow-up this way, making a S16 contact answer print first to get the grading right, and then a blow-up using the same grading tape or diskette.

 

In our preview theatre the S16 answer print is projected on a dual format Sondor Nova projector where the final blow-up is also screened. they match perfectly, except the S16 seems a little more contrasty due to the projection lens.

 

A film we did a couple years ago was also distributed in the US: 'The red dwarf' shot on 7293, printed on B&W soundtrack stock via color IP/DN. This film won the European Cinematography Award in that year.

 

Of all the European labs I know we are probably the one with the highest ratio of blow-up versus 35 work.

 

Dirk DeJonghe

www.color-by-dejonghe.com

[Sam Wells]

Thanks, Dirk !!!

 

(I don't know where I got the Hamnas name from, although I have a reference).

 

Well this isn't an issue next week or next month, even, but maybe I'll begin checking airfares to Belgium !

 

-Sam

[John Pytlak RIP]

Here is a link to the Association of Cinema and Video Laboratories (ACVL) Manual, which discusses editing/cutting, and communication with the lab:

 

http://www.acvl.org/manual.htm

 

Labs can usually accomodate the differences in any given type of film within the same roll, e.g., all Kodak color negatives can usually be intercut. Obviously, each film has its own "look", which is why you are using more than one film type for the production.