Worst Super 8 camera

[Michael Lehnert]

To paraphrase a Michael Winner advert in British TV: "Calm down, dear, it's polemics!"

 

First: I stand by what I said, the Beaulieu 5008-series, especially the 5008 S is what I consider the worst (not the cheapest, nor most unsophisticated, or unreliable, or ? to calm down Emil ? unusable one) Super 8 camera ever made.

 

Kevin understood my point and line of thought straight away. I learned to appreciate this method of "relative appreciation" over "absolute judgment" while emigrating to the UK and doing my uni degrees here. Coming from Germany where absolute judgements are normal approach, irrespective of what the author or person or thing actually wants to achieve with what it does, that was an intellectual reveal to me, as all those absolutist "objective criteria" I grew up with and conformed to in my work are anyway arguable, disputable, questionable, often even pointless, opinionated, disregarding different points of views, let alone above all subjective at heart in the first place.

But by looking at what the thing or person is actually on about, wants to achieve, and then evaluate her, him or it based on its/his/her own presets, goals and whether those are achieved or failed-at miserably, I think one can actually develop a meaningful conversation about its point of being, its impact and how to proceed from then on in one's further life.

 

The Bentley is what I said it is in my earlier post. It doesn't want to be like "the other Bentley [car]", just a simple banger. And it does that well. You get exactly what you see on the packaging. Not more, BUT ALSO not less! Same goes for the Agfa Family line-up, a very good example made by Kevin.

Just by existing, these cameras surely allowed more people to access filmmaking than the Beaulieu 5008-series ever did, and that one was self-declared (i.e. declared by Marcel Beaulieu himself and the abiding press/media) to be "the best Super 8 camera in the world". It was and is anything but that! Even if your world view does only encompass Beaulieu cameras (and there are humans out there who live such a life, no kiddin'), that claim made in 1974 and later is preposterous if you comparingly look at the Beaulieu 4008 ZM II and even ZM IV (despite the latter one's awfully underperforming Schneider 6-70mm lens).

 

Let me continue on that: I had a couple of screenings of recently restored projects of my film group shot in the 1980s. Just for fun, as the screening room had a good mood amongst us the later the afternoon got, and as we talked about tech issues and this post here , we loaded some early 1970s footage shot with a Hanimex. I don't even know the designation anymore (it's somewhere in storage...), and I expected a ludicrous quality. To our shock, the visual quality was actually on a par with footage of a 10 year older Canon 514 XL! Now, on eBay, the Hanimex would not sell, but the Canon would fetch quite an amount. Without any real grounding, as we found out.

Likewise, we then screened the first-ever-shot reel of a then-brand-new Bauer C 700 XLM (again a camera few would buy, going for 5008s and Canon 1014s instead) from 1984. And the frame stability was awesome. It surpassed the frame variance I learned to "love" from the even pin-reg'd Arriflex 16 SR-series (excl. the last Advanced model, which sorted that awful wave problem out after 20-odd years. The camera is still with us in active duty, gets regular CLA, and although no longer factory-new, is very good. Yet its original quality with the plastic-pressure-plate much-hated S8 cartridge is extraordinary. I wish more people who can't see top-condition Super 8 projected, i.e. the setting it was designed for originally just like 16 and 35, would be able to make this experience, as voices of "bad cartridges" and "needs for reg pins à la Arriflex" would be silenced forever ? they are just "ill-informed".

 

Now why is the 5008-series parsecs away from even coming close to achieve what it set out to be, namely to be the greatest Super 8 camera ever built, a serious production camera for professional filmmaking on the Super 8 format, a camera worthy of being built with a gold body to symbolise its greatness (as done with the full Gold Edition in France and the logo Gold Edition overseas)?

Compared to the 4008-series, let alone other top production cameras or even universal cameras that came to market much later, it is actually terribly thought-through, designed, equipped, operatable and lacking so many functions Beaulieu pioneered and stands for, it's really deplorable to look at.

If Tony thinks it is underrated, than I would polemically counter that actually, it is still far overrated if I look at the web consensus. Now I am not saying, Emil, that its useless: you can make excellent features with it, as it basically runs 24fps forward at very smooth 1/60sec, and that's it. With DI and digital post chains, not much more is needed today. In many respect, the Beaulieu 5008 series is more like a 35mm camera than many 35mm cameras were then. But that is not what Super 8 as a format is all about, or cine-film cameras should only actually offer (unlike, say, an Arriflex 35 BL or an Aaton XTRprod).

It is a top camera due to its mirror reflex shutter and interchangeable lens option that puts it construction-wise into the upper echelons of all Super 8 cameras. But only because of those two features. If these were gone, I would buy a Hanimex again every day. The 5008 S basically runs 18 or 24 fps forward with Ektasound cartridges. Kodapak integration Beaulieu based its reputation on was completely lost for almost 26 years at that firm, until Ritter launched the Beaulieu 9008 Quartz-S and Quartz-Pro models (of which I assume a dozen were made before they bankrupted), that finally reintroduced with much fanfare many crucial features last seen on the 4008-series aeons ago. The 5008's film running speed issues were rectified with the Multispeed-model, which is therefore somewhat useable at all, but still poor compared to any other top production camera. The handheld ergonomics are off-balance, the camera very heavy, and to add insult to injury, the tripod base is idiotically constructed. The handgrip feel is even worse than on the R16, the power-switch half-cooked for continuous handheld running. The release button was so dysfunctional, Beaulieu recalled the first series and refitted it with the now-famous release hook. But that added another wobbely piece of unelegant plastic solutions to the camera, and complicated cable-releasing which was important for manual single-frame or off-18/24 operations. The remote socket clashed with the power-switch design when not tripod-mounted, and that one - as I said - caused problems until Beaulieu offered the tripod base adapter some years later. More importantly, it's ground glass can't be swung out as the 4008 can, and its divided grain structure (why was fine grain abandoned, again?) is darkening the viewfinder in many lighting:f/stop ratio situations and thus obstructing cadrage. The early 6008 series had a better fine grain ground glass spot within an aerial (the best thing about the 6008; they learned from and addressed mistakes at Romorontin, at least), and that was ingenious by Beaulieu, but very expensive and hence dropped later, reverting to the 5008 solution for the 6008 series 2. Reverse winding only works with Ektasound, not Kodapak cartridges, but was pointless anyhow as the camera lacked most frighteningly a variable shutter, which should be a dealbreaker for any serious camera operator. Compared to the 4008 ZM II and IV, the 5008 lost out in so many aspects, I could go on and on. Even with regard to its running noise, I would put a CLA'd 4008 ZM II (maybe even a IV) on a par with the 5008 using a Kodapak cartridge (the Ektasound reduced the noise below the 4008, I agree, but that era is gone forever). And a Nizo sound camera is equally silent, plus offers more options and far-superior ergonomics. And finally, the ZM II came with the same Schneider 11x6mm or optionally the 13x6mm found on the 5008 (hence my saying "keep the lens, throw away the body"). So the lens isn't a USP of that camera as well.

 

Don't get me wrong, it's a usable camera, and well-suited for today's prod-chains (although you can get much better gear for less money) but it does by far not achieve what it wants to be, namely be the best universal camera ever made (to use the definition of Lenny Lipton). It fails at that quite clearly, and because its ambitions were so high, yet the delivery so low, that divergent ratio makes it the worst camera for me. The Bentley, at least, is WYSIWYG. The 5008 is WYSINWYWSTGAP... or so.

 

For next week, Emil, I wish you a great shoot with few unexpected problems and great results. I am sure your 5008S Multispeed will deliver better material than 95% of Super 8 cameras can even dream of. I am also convinced that it will settle in well at your place. It deserves attention and love as it is a worthy gear for such. let alone to own. And in that sense: Good light to you!

[Tony Hudson]

But by looking at what the thing or person is actually on about, wants to achieve, and then evaluate her, him or it based on its/his/her own presets, goals and whether those are achieved or failed-at miserably, I think one can actually develop a meaningful conversation about its point of being, its impact and how to proceed from then on in one's further life.

 

 

 

 

You sound like a consultant there Michael. The ruination of many a fine business.

 

 

 

 

For next week, Emil, I wish you a great shoot with few unexpected problems and great results. I am sure your 5008S Multispeed will deliver better material than 95% of Super 8 cameras can even dream of. I am also convinced that it will settle in well at your place. It deserves attention and love as it is a worthy gear for such. let alone to own. And in that sense: Good light to you!

 

 

 

 

That's good enough for most shooters. Semantics be damned.

Edited November 30, 2007 by Tony Hudson

[Alessandro Machi]

I chucked a Bentley out of an airplane at 13,000 and it was still chugging away when we found it an hour later in a soggy field. I'm so damn proud of that piece of crap that I gave it a place on my mantel, dirt and all.

 

It run out of film long before it hit the ground. My next sacrifice was a Canon XL something at 3,000. It still runs too.

 

I see a short film idea here. It turns the guy who throws the cameras out of the airplane is actually a multimillionaire

who resides in a private mental institution. The resident nurses who look after the multimillionaire mental patient accommodate his crazy wishes because he has such deep pockets. So about once a month they accompany him and go up in a plane and he drops a running super-8 from the airplane. We find out after a couple of camera drops that there are other resident nurses tracking the airplane from the ground and after sweeping up all evidence of the imploded super-8 cameras, they plant an identical one, still running (ahem) where our lead actor will find it.

 

You said your cameras were running when you found them, right? :unsure:

[Michael Lehnert]

I see a short film idea here. It turns the guy who throws the cameras out of the airplane is actually a multimillionaire

who resides in a private mental institution. The resident nurses who look after the multimillionaire mental patient accommodate his crazy wishes because he has such deep pockets. So about once a month they accompany him and go up in a plane and he drops a running super-8 from the airplane. We find out after a couple of camera drops that there are other resident nurses tracking the airplane from the ground and after sweeping up all evidence of the imploded super-8 cameras, they plant an identical one, still running (ahem) where our lead actor will find it.

You said your cameras were running when you found them, right? :unsure:

 

:lol:

 

Oh, that is brilliant! Quick! Get it copyrighted... the best pitch for "Point Break 2" yet. Hmm, I think I could suggest a UK location for that mental institution that would make the location manager of "Batman begins" weep... :D

 

 

You sound like a consultant there Michael. The ruination of many a fine business.

 

Oh... and I thought I sounded like a university professor who went through Houghton Street. The origination of many the greatest thoughts of the 20th century, plus the manifestation of that little humorist thing called "discussion culture" that makes the UK such a nice place to endure rain, flu and $9/US-gallon petrol.

(bows to Stephen Fry and Matthew Buick who thinks the BBC is misandrist ;) ). At least you can rest assured that after marketers and business strategists, Super 8 consultants will be shot third when the revolution finally comes upon us, Tony.

 

(on a serious rant note, actually, having had to deal with that Big 4 management consultant crowd professionally on some occasions, I must say that these dim-witted, half-educated twats would anything but say or think the way I babbled above, as you presume, Tony. They are just career-horny w*n*ers without brains and consideration)

 

 

That's good enough for most shooters. Semantics be damned.

 

Damned shall it be! To the Beyond with it, down with semiotics, kill hermeneutics, slash post-/structuralism. To hell with it! After all, the only thing that came out of all that in our industry was the Aaton. And that one was French and constantly breaks down even while striking for lower working hours and higher pay.

(Beware, dear reader, the irony-meter should move up to 100% in this paragraph.)

 

On a serious note:

Could have bought a 5008 for a couple of hundred Swiss francs over a decade ago. Had the Schneider 13x6mm in good condition on it. Only time I had personally seen that lens then. Was in hinsight not even overpriced... (stupid eBay-buyers!) but I couldn't even mentally graps the many zeros the seller wanted at that time, let alone pay for it. So I left. Regretted it ever since (for the lens, not the body).

[Emil Soderman]

hehe alright Michael i see what you mean!

Just got real curious if you had any inside information i didint have that could make or brake our movie ;)

 

Really anxious to get shooting now!

Thanks for the nice words, 95% better results then most Super 8 wouldnt be all that bad!

[Alessandro Machi]

hehe alright Michael i see what you mean!

Just got real curious if you had any inside information i didint have that could make or brake our movie ;)

 

Really anxious to get shooting now!

Thanks for the nice words, 95% better results then most Super 8 wouldnt be all that bad!

 

I recall a fellow filmmaker owning the Beaulieu 5008 Sound camera way back when I was in college. It was considered the cadillac of Super-8 cameras. What I didn't like about the camera was at 18 frames per second the shutter was something like 1/72 of a second, and when somebody walked horizontally by the camera it looked so stroby. However, other than that one negative observation, it made the low budget set seem more professional having that camera on the set.

[Michael Lehnert]

hehe alright Michael i see what you mean!

Just got real curious if you had any inside information i didint have that could make or brake our movie ;)

 

Thanks for getting it. It is a stretch, I admit :P ;)

And "Sorry" for scaring you unnecesarily. The 5008 is as reliable as the 4008 when regularly CLA'd, which is very good. It's lame as a Super 8 camera, but good for straightforward shooting, if that is all one needs.

 

---

 

Alex, that decription is fitting. As I said, it's the most 35mm-spirited camera for S8, but it eschews the many advantages S8 offers over 35 or 16 for that.