Jason Rodriguez Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 Hello, I'm not sure if anybody's seen this tapeless workflow that Bono Labs (a new division of Bono Film and Video) in Arlington has been advertising, but it looks quite interesting to me. Has anybody done any work through Bono before on their DAV Cineglyph. I've never heard of this telecine before, and I'm wondering if the quality will be up to par. It seems like a nice concept since I can do a flat transfer to an uncompressed 10-bit Quicktime format and color-correct my final piece on the Mac using a good color-correction program like Color Finesse. I can then make a nice digital file out of my piece for a relatively cheap cost. So, what to do? Should I take my chances with this "new" workflow, or look for a more traditional Spirit transfer to say, D5? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member David Mullen ASC Posted July 19, 2004 Premium Member Share Posted July 19, 2004 Is QuickTime an uncompressed format? Are there any downsides to this format compared to D5? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Steelberg ASC Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 Yes, quicktime can be uncompressed. It seems like an interesting and promising alternative, but I'd be nervous that I didn't have a tape backup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member David Mullen ASC Posted July 19, 2004 Premium Member Share Posted July 19, 2004 I suppose if you had enough hard drives, you could at least make a hard drive back-up... Could you burn it to CD's as a QuickTime file, or would that be too many CD's if uncompressed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Steelberg ASC Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 Not really. You're talking terabytes of information. Hundreds of CDs. You'd have to back it up to other hard drives and archive those drives. You could back it up to data tape, but that's not the fastest thing either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted July 20, 2004 Premium Member Share Posted July 20, 2004 Hi, Just for completeness; Quicktime, AVI, Windows Media and other similar formats are frameworks into which you can put various things. Quicktime is famous for having a whole bunch of options it can do, but mainly we're interested in them as a framework for video/film and possibly audio. In this context a file can have one or more "streams" which are stored alternately (AVI stands for Audio Visual Interleave, for the way the sound and vision chunks are woven together). Any of these streams can use any compression codec of your choosing, including, usually, "none." Quicktime is the container, Sorenson or Cinepak or whatever is the video codec. Interesting implications of this include the fact that most formats can have more than one video stream, for several pictures at once, or perhaps more usefully more than two audio streams, for multipoint surround. Most modern formats also have room for subtitles and other metadata. Also, they are resolution independent; it has been possible to work with 2K film material under Windows since the Video for Windows spec was released in the early nineties. This is why people like me seem surprisingly unimpressed by "HD" tags on things like Final Cut and Premiere Pro - both have been able to do HD frame sizes around the Quicktime or AVI formats more or less since their inception. Downsides against things like D5: bit depth is controlled by the codec, but as a practical matter, most are 8-bit. It would be perfectly valid to write a codec that put DPX or Cineon data into an AVI or Quicktime, then ran it through a LUT for proper display. Other than that... uh, nothing, really. Bits are bits, irrespective of how you store them. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Rodriguez Posted July 20, 2004 Author Share Posted July 20, 2004 Hey all, great points, but I'm wondering about that DAV Cineglyph. Has anybody heard of those telecines before? How do they compare to a Spirit? BTW, they're using the Blackmagic Uncompressed 10-bit 4:2:2 codec. Basically they have the telecine hooked up via HD-SDI to a Mac/Blackmagic HD card, and they're recording from there. Best-light transfers only, which again isn't bad since I'll have 10-bit uncompressed Quicktimes for the final color-correct/home-brewed-DI. But I'm a little nervous about that telecine, and am wondering if anybody's worked with them before. Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neal Fredericks Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 I have had two features telecined on the Cineglyph here in Hollywood at Crest National... one was dailies (unsupervised - regular 35mm) for a Sony picture and the other was fully supervised dailies (super 35mm) for an indy feature... pretty close to the quality of a Shadow but not quite a Spirit...one thing these Cineglyphs did not have were secondary programs to isolate areas of the frame... but overall i was very happy to have my work transferred on them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Adam Frisch FSF Posted July 20, 2004 Premium Member Share Posted July 20, 2004 This is great news! It's such a hassle having to go over tape when you're in the computer at some point anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted July 20, 2004 Premium Member Share Posted July 20, 2004 Hi, > one thing these Cineglyphs did not have were secondary programs to isolate > areas of the frame... That sounds like a property of the colour corrector, if any, not the telecine - so it may not apply to all machines of this type, depending how they are configured. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Wells Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 http://www.bonolabs.com/overview.htm Suggests they are using the Davinci as some sort of controller for the crt itself - I confess I don't quite understand how this would work on a Flying Spot telecine - if it were a Vialta I'd get it, because you have in effect an RGB lamphouse.... This explains why no secondaries, though. -Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted July 20, 2004 Premium Member Share Posted July 20, 2004 Hi, It can work very similarly for a flying spot telecine - you're just controlling the gains of the photoelectric pickups instead of the light level. In fact, some colour correction configurations call the third trackball "PEC", for photo-electric cell, rather than gain. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Wells Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 Thanks Phil, I was thinking along those lines later.... they seem to be implying that this is cleaner than sending the signal through the Davinci 8:8:8 -- but at the same time, with 4:2:2 out, and the fact that you're gonna want to grade downstream from this Best-light, I don't know, aside from the DIY & cost factors, is this really a better signal path ? -Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted July 20, 2004 Premium Member Share Posted July 20, 2004 Hi, Well, it's happening in analogue space rather than digital - depends how the amplifiers are controlled, really. Doesn't produce any quantisation, certainly. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Rodriguez Posted July 20, 2004 Author Share Posted July 20, 2004 I'm hoping it's a better signal path. Hopefully I'll be getting some footage soon. If it works out, then yah, I'm pretty jazzed over this approach since it means no more compressed tapes and expensive tape decks (although I'll have to spend more on hard-drives). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Wells Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 Please share your impressions ! -Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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