29.97P vs. 30P

Robert Learner · July 28, 2004

Will be shooting a spot with the Sony 900 soon. The HD tapes will be downconverted for editing and budget restrictions prevent HD reconform/finishing. Which frame rate am I better off with in this scenario, 29.97 or 30P? Does it matter? What are the considerations?

Thanks all.

Landon D. Parks · July 28, 2004

Personally, 24p is the only way in my opinion.

Personally, if you have access to 24p, that is your best option. 24psf is also a good choice for Direct to TV release.

Just my opinion... However, if you MUST use anything other than 24p, keep it at 30p... :blink:

David Mullen ASC · July 28, 2004

With 30P, you run a risk should you need to make a PAL version. Otherwise, the only difference between 30P and 24P when viewed in NTSC is that 30P looks smoother and doesn't have the pulldown judder. That also makes the motion slightly more video-ish, and since you ARE shooting video but want a film-look, using 24P (actually 23.98P) might be safer.

But you were asking about shooting in 29.97P versus 30P? No difference visually there but if you are recording separate audio, you may have some sync issues to work out since even IF you shoot at 30P in HD, it becomes 29.97 fps anyway when downconverted to NTSC. So you might as well shoot at 29.97P. But I recommend shooting at 23.98P.

John Sprung · July 28, 2004

There are two issues to consider. One is whether to be in the "point nine something" world or the "point zero zero" world. The other is whether to be in the 24-ish/25-ish neighborhood, or the 30-ish neighborhood.

The original NTSC-1 black and white TV system was 30.00 fields per second. Because of a color subcarrier interference problem, they moved to 29.97 for NTSC-2 color TV. That became a problem when we started to record video on tape and invented time code. One hour's worth of 30.00 comes out 3 seconds and 18 frames too long if you slow it down to 29.97. So, drop frame time code was invented to keep TV in sync with the clock on the wall.

The important thing is that if you shoot with multiple cameras and/or double system sound, you must have everything set up the same way. Either all "point nine something" or all "point zero zero". Mix them and you make big syncing trouble. Getting the final run time and drop/non-drop right is the editor's job. They can intercut drop and non-drop sources, and choose either drop or non for the record side of the EDL.

"Point nine something" vs. "point zero zero" is a purely technical issue, with no aesthetic consequences, and no financial consequences (unless you get them mixed up.)

The 24/25 vs. 30 decision you must discuss with the folks you're working for. The NTSC/ATSC market will generally accept conversions from 24/25 to 30, but the PAL/SECAM markets don't want to buy conversions from 30 to 24/25. So 24 is the safe financial choice. But if there are no foreign sales issues, then you have to consider whether you want the 3-2 pulldown look or not.

-- J.S.

Robert Learner · July 29, 2004

Thanks for the info. everyone. Given what I'm shooting, the pulldown judder might be a problem which is why I'm looking at 29.97 or 30p. Didn't think there would be any difference in look between the two, but that's the great thing about this forum, direct access to first-hand experience and first-rate insight.

Mr. Mullen, I believe I read you were nominated into the ASC. Congratulations.