Car Lighting

[Carlos M. Icaza]

Hello,

 

Am about to film a short involving car driving.

 

We built the camera rig already for the front hood and we built the side panel camera mounts as well.

 

The particular car scene will probably take a good portion of the day to film, maybe even two days because the last part of the scene is a 180 degree turn, so I am bit worried about the "non magic hours" and I'll probably need to add some lights to illuminate the driver and her passanger during the Noon hours.

 

The hood mount we built allows you to mount up to two cameras and two to three lights.

 

I am thinking of using two 1200w HMI PARS with some diffuison to light up the actors. One unit placed on the right side the other on the left side. But having limited experience in daylight lighting specially a moving vehicle, I don't know if 1200w HMI will do.

 

Any recommendations as to what lights I need and what if other suggestions you have?

 

We have an inverter to power up the lights.

 

I am shooting with an XL-1 ( still in my learning phase :D )

 

I will post pictures of the rigs when I have a chance.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Carlos.-

[Michael Nash]

1200's are common for this type of setup, but inverters won't be enough to power them. You'll more likely need a crystal-synch putt-putt genny.

 

Are you planning on towing the picture car or putting it on a trailer? This may be stating the obvious, but there's no way actors can drive a car with hood-mounted lights pointed in their face. So as long as you have a tow vehicle or trailer, you have a place to put the generator and possibly a bigger light and diffusion.

[Adam Frisch FSF]

Depends on how nutty an actor you've got, Michael B)

 

I've used the 1200w and they work nicely, even on sunny days if you don't mind

spotting them a bit. I've also used a smaller 575W PAR fully spotted on the actor

on a very sunny day, and it worked fine (and the mad guy drove the car AND acted). But

only because he had dark sunglasses and we were going for that 70's "Vanishing

Point"-look. I kinda like the bright little dot of a reflection in sunglasses - some don't.

To me it just looks more Sam Peckinpah :D

[Carlos M. Icaza]

I was afraid of the lights needing a genny.

 

Thanks for the tip about the drivers not been able to watch the road. Didn't think of that thoughrouly. I would have probably learned that this weekend when I start test shoots.

 

Looks like I'll be talking to some trailer companies.

 

One of the things that we are planning to do as well is mount a 15' mini jib on the back of a pick up truck. Luckily I have a friend who doesn't mind my grip drilling holes into the pickup bed to bolt the jib onto it.

 

Thanks and I'll post picts and sample video when I have chance....

 

C.-

[Michael Nash]

Pickup trucks usually have hooks or tie-down points on the sides of the bed. Use heavy duty ratchet straps (AKA motorcycle straps) to secure the jib base in all directions.

 

But it always makes me nervous when students start describing things like this, because there are serious safety issues involved. Any time you have moving vehicles with equipment and crew memebers hanging off them, there's a risk. If you're even considering something like this you really should get a couple experienced grips to supervise the rigging. Trying to figure it for yourself for the first time is just asking for trouble. Someone could get injured or killed, and you may not even leaglly be able to do what you propose. Here in california, it's illegal to ride in the back of an open pickup.

 

There's also a well-known case of an experienced camera operator who was ejected from an insert car that tipped over, and now he's brain damaged. When stuff like this goes wrong it goes REALLY wrong.

[Carlos M. Icaza]

Thanks for the feedback.

 

Safety is one of my top priorities and for the rest of the crew that works with me as well. Also, I forgot to mention that none of this work, or any of the work I done before, gets done without approval and or with accordance to the rules and regulations of the film commision, and any stuff that I don't know about or that am planning on doing, I talk to the film comission and if they don't know the answer they usually provide me with someone that knows. A good example was on my last short, we had rented genny for abeach scene. Prior to renting the genny, I asked about and ran it through the film comission to see if it was approved by them. For this particular scene, which calls for 180 degree fast turn, we have a stunt driver and the highway patrol will be closing down two streets for us to film on. Obviously, the streets are not in downtown, rather on an open street near some orchard farm, with plenty of shoulder room and no buildings miles on either side of them. Speaking of which, we are gonig to rent what is called cherry picker to film the car swerving 180degrees from the top.

 

One quick question though, them hollywood grip trucks for car filming, which I often see with lots of people behind them, how do they get away with it?

 

C.-

[Michael Nash]

One quick question though, them hollywood grip trucks for car filming, which I often see with lots of people behind them, how do they get away with it?

I believe that's covered by the permit (not really my end of things, though). Here in LA at least, whenever I've seen a Shotmaker cruising down a public highway there is always a police escort. If it's a closed road then you can do whatever you want. I've been on a freeway at night where we landed a helicopter and spun cars 180, because we "owned" the road for a few hours.

 

I worked on a low budget feature a couple years ago where we stole shots from the bed of a pickup -- driving across the Oakland Bay bridge, through San Fransisco and North Beach, stopped for dialogue even in the Haight/Ashbury district, and then across the Golden Gate bridge without so much as a sideways glance form police. Then we tried to do the same thing on an isolated road in sleepy little Mountainview (farther south) and promptly got busted!

[JONATHANEDWARDS]

i hope this helps but , you can get 3000w inverters for house boats and stuff.

and power it with a heavy duty battery. you can find them in most RV's stores

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

You cannot power a 3kW inverter from a heavy battery. 3000W at 12V is 250 amps, so you could probably power it from about ten heavy batteries connected up with copper heating pipe. I've known a lot of people get excited about very large inverters, but they're really only practical in permanent installations.

 

Phil

[Carlos M. Icaza]

Thanks everyone for their valuable input.

 

I have posted a picture of one of the home made car mount and a movie done on a very cheap camera. (Trying it out for the first time wouldn't want to sacrifice the XL1) :D

 

Take a gander and let me know what you think

 

http://www.ansca.net/car-rig/carrig.html

 

two things, the picture is large, yes I know, I didn't one a compressed version because the rig didn't look good with a compressed image.

 

Please remember that the movie is a sample to see if the rig worked and it is on a $300.00 cheapo camera.

 

Also, my grip custom built the cheese plate.

 

Thoughts ?

 

Carlos.-

[Michael Nash]

Are those red things suction cups? It seems like a lot of joints to potentially come loose, and no ratchet straps to secure anything.

 

Most hood mounts are in the form of a platform that rests on the hood, and then is ratcheted down onto the wheel wells or frame. Your mount puts the camera farther from the windshield than normal.

 

Whatever works and gives you the shot you want is a good thing. But I wouldn't rely solely on suction cups to adhere the rig to the car, and I'd try to have fewer joints with gobo heads, instead opting for typical 2" speedrail.

[Jo Laurits Aksdal]

Wouldn't a small cine-saddle and your xl1 be a good option in this case.

I place a white sheet on the actors lap for some fill in when shooting car scenes. (only done it once though)

 

Cheers!

[Carlos M. Icaza]

Michael,

 

I call the mount that you saw is mount version 1.0. This was a test case. Rather crude, but I needed to see if we cull pull it off and now off to version 2.0 B) Which will include the safety ratchet straps, less suction cups, smaller grip arms, etc...

 

The cinne saddle would work for the hood mount closeup. I don't know if I'll use it though.

 

Thanks and more pics/video later.

 

Cheers,

 

Carlos.

[Tony Brown]

driving across the Oakland Bay bridge,

Shot on there last night with a rolling block, police were very helpful

[Paul Bruening]

Could you just make a directorial change? Did you notice how many car scenes in Se7en were shot from the back seat? Here, the shot is automatically back lit and one 1200 watt can provide a key, being held by a PA, and yeild common two point light. I've even put a Honda genie in the trunk, shot from the back seat and ADR'd in post. My genie can push 3K. The cops never even noticed. We could have driven around all day like that. LOL

[Carlos M. Icaza]

Paul,

 

We have scenes that are from the back seat as well. And speaking of puttting a honda on the trunk, we did that for the last short I worked on. :-) Kind of crazy what we go through to get the "shot".

 

 

Everyone:

 

Anyways, I thought I share a picture that I thought was rather, well, I'll let you guys decide.

 

http://www.crewpix.com/gallery/Indie/Untitled8

 

I don't know if it is a hoax, but talk about stupidity.

 

 

C.-

[Michael Nash]

http://www.crewpix.com/gallery/Indie/Untitled8

UNbelievable. You don't even have to have ever seen a hood mount to know NOT to do this. :angry:

[Carlos M. Icaza]

Just sharing that tomorrow is the big day. Three days for a roughly thirty seconds short.

 

I'll post some pics and hopefully some footage once I get it.

 

C.-

[Carlos M. Icaza]

Folks, here are some of the picts from the super short I shot two weeks ago.

 

keep in mind, my gaffer built the car mount and build the cheese plate.

 

http://www.ansca.net/rig/index.htm

 

Enjoy,

 

C.-

[Michael Nash]

Looks good, although the lens height looks a little higher than normal. But I guess that's the angle you wanted, since it looks like the rig is somewhat adjustable.

 

How did the shots come out? Did you get what you wanted? Was there any vibration in the lens when the car was moving? (that's often a problem with small lightweight cameras).

 

Thanks for posting the followup picks. I wish more people here would post follow-ups to the questions they pose to the forum.

[Carlos M. Icaza]

Thanks Michael,

 

The angle was pretty much what the director wanted, and we did several angled versions. These were some of the pictures chosen to post.

 

The shots came out really good. I was afraid mostly because while the car was driven I didn't have a way to see with a monitor only through the viewfinder when I setup the shot and the midday sun was horrible and I was worried about the sun and strong shadows. We used the flag to cut down the light, clever tricked that did the work. Luckily for us, I did some dry runs with my crew days before and I determine the best exposure/f-stop/shutter speed.

 

There were hardly any vibrations. Actually, it was mostly noticable when the lens had the stabilizer on. That was horrendous. Another lesson learned while doing the dry run a week earlier. I turned off the lens-stabilizer and it was much smoother. I also tried adding weight with some 5 pds bags secured to the cheeseplate but made it that more difficult to set the camera.

 

Only problem we had after we reviewed the dailies was that the sound recordist who was sitting on the back seat of the car is visible at certain times while he manuevered the microphone between the dialog of the actors. Creative editing will come into play to fix that.

 

I am trying to get a picture where we cheated the car making the 180-e-break turn. We put the car into four four wheel kind of fixtures and spun it around. Stuff that you can buy at Kragen or any other car parts co. Mounted the car on them and pulled from one side. I also have some illustrations that I'll post when I get the other pictures.

 

Cheers,

 

Carlos.-

[Michael Nash]

I am trying to get a picture where we cheated the car making the 180-e-break turn. We put the car into four four wheel kind of fixtures and spun it around. Stuff that you can buy at Kragen or any other car parts co. Mounted the car on them and pulled from one side. I also have some illustrations that I'll post when I get the other pictures.

That sounds cool, I'd like to see that.

 

BTW, my browser didn't like your page and wouldn't load the pics properly (IE on AOL 8.0). I could view the thumbnails but only the first pic came up full size.

[Carlos M. Icaza]

Michael,

 

Ok. I just had one of the PA's e-mail me the picture and I re-did the page. Somehow I chose web gallery slideshow rather than normal. Go figure. It should work now.

 

See picture P9050642.sized.jpg and let me know what you think. We pulled the car to the center of the street and then spun it around. We had some help from one of our trucks to move it into positon. One word: Heavy ! Doing this trick saved us a lot of $$ and didn't put anybody at harms way.

 

 

C.-

[Bob Hayes]

That?s a very professional rig. I don?t personally trust suction cups but with a small camera they are probably OK. With regards to not having a monitor. There are lots of very cheap battery powered monitors that take RCA video in available. I bought mine at radio shack for about $200 dollars. When I shoot video I put a 12? very thin video cable on the camera and give it to the director. I also use it for car shots. Also what was were the wheels you had the car on? How did you use them on your shoot?

[Carlos M. Icaza]

Bob,

 

Thanks ! They sure look professional :lol:

 

As for the wheels in the car mounted on them wheelies thingy, we used them to spin the car around. The shot called for the driver to pull on the e-break and spin the car around. One of the first logistical problems we had was that our driver didn't know how to drive stick shift. (Don't shoot, I was just the DP). So we had to figure out how to make the 180-e-break turn.

 

Not wanting to risk anybody and to pull off the spin so that it looked real, we put the car on top of them wheels and used a truck to pull it to the center of the street, then we had plenty of Grips pull from one side as other grips push from the front side.

 

 

 

This way it made it look like the driver hit the break and spun the car without really driving it and going at unsafe speed.

 

It was the only way we could think of pulling off the stunt given where we are in our journey into filmmaking aside from budget considerations.

 

Thanks,

 

Carlos.-