Super 16 mm. vs. regular 16 mm.

[Jim Feldspar]

 

1. They started a project.

2. They finished the project.

3. They went on to do other projects.

 

Filmmakers, writers, actors, producers, artists, etc., never fail.... they just quit.

 

NEVER QUIT

 

Thanks! I feel an obligation to do the greatest work I can.

 

When everyone else had given up because the Ark of the Covenant had been taken

away in a truck,

 

Indiana Jones said "Truck, what truck?"

[Jim Feldspar]

The problem is that people starting thinking about the shooting format way too early, before they've finished the script, found the money, found the cast, found the locations, scheduled the shoot, etc. The reason they do that is because it's easier to worry about the format than deal with the script, money, casting, locations, etc.

 

Get all your key elements in place and then see what you need to actually shoot the movie with. If you can't get a Super-16 camera but can get a regular 16mm camera, then you procede with the regular 16mm camera --- you don't call off the shoot at that point. But you'd be surprised when you have all the pieces in place what sort of deals can be found for equipment.

 

Yes, we have a solid short script, good cast, locked locations, good props, hair and make-up,

a great art department in the form of two Jack (and Jill) of all trades who are in art school,

and a solid crew, all of whom have proven to be true to their word in the past when they've

committed. We've set shoot dates: a Friday night and the ensuing weekend and the story is

fairly serious (not without humor but substantial.)

 

Based on this, we've been promised at least a BL-16 with 12-120 Angenieux and we're glad to

have it (and we may be upgraded if something else turns out not to be booked for rental by

that Friday.)

 

We went back with our production plans, script, some tests we did on Mini-DV and apparently

looked like we have our act together enough to be set up with a camera, camera support,

another tech from the rental house who offered to A.C..

 

By hook or by crook, we're going to shoot!

 

Geting back to the original question - does the guy in the rental shop have any idea of what you are planning to present? If he figures you just want to go out and play, he may be reluctant to put wera in his "bread and Butter" equoipmnet - but as someone said, he may have a reg 16 unit that does not earn too much income fo rhim anyway that he can loan out to make his employee happy.

 

Have you shown him the script you are planning? have you shown him a story board. You probably "should " pitch the production as though you were wanting him to pay for all the film and processing costs. Thne see if he lets you use the "big Gun"

 

If not - with the film you can get now, shoot regualr, and plan a crop. You audience won't notice the differnce if you tell them a good story. and you can always pull a George lucas and do a remake (like THX whatever the number) after you are famous.

Thanks, Charles. Our pitch changed what we hadn't realized had seemed to the boss be a

casual

request

(although we were quite serious) into our showing that we're organized and

extremely dedicated and that seemed to make a big difference. We actually shot our

storyboards with Mini-DV to get a clearer idea of how things might work.

 

(Good point from Mr. Mullen in another post: The storyboard is always in focus but the shot

might not be, although with Mini-DV, mostly everything is in focus but still good to keep in

mind.)

 

Thank you everybody for your technical insight and your ferocious encoragement!

[Christian Janss]

The times I have shot regular 16 with the plan on outputting 16:9, I have taped off the viewfinder. Using Scotch brand Magic Tape, which allows you to see the top and bottom of the frame so you can protect 4:3, but frame for 16:9 quite simply.

 

-Tim

 

 

Tim:

 

I have an Arri S/B and I love it, but I don't want to be restricted by the 4:3 ratio. I want to shoot an upcoming project on regular 16mm film (hopefully for cable distribution), but I'd like to keep my options open for a 16:9 / HD format. I plan to use a slow ASA (50 or 200) so grain won't be much of an issue.

 

I have two questions regarding framing thru the viewfinder:

 

1. Specifically for the Arri S, how exactly do you use scotch tape to show you the 16:9 area of the 4:3 box? Do you have to take the eyecup off and tape or do you tape over the lens shade? How do you know if you've got exactly 16:9, or do you just take a rough guess?

 

2. If you are shooting for 16:9 and you accidentally frame too low say, can you avoid cutting off the actor's head by cropping a little less off the top and a little more from the bottom for that one take/scene? Or would that mess up the whole cropping process?

Basically, are you committed to cropping equally from the top and bottom or can you make a sliding scale adjustment to give a little flexibility to the frame?

 

But this may beg a broader question, specifically, if I choose to frame for a 16:9 image and it turns out I still use the full regular 16mm 4:3 ratio, won't it look a little funny to have massive space between the actor's head and the top of the frame? So, basically, once I choose to frame for 16:9, scoth tape or no scotch tape, I'm committed to it, right?

 

 

While I fully appreciate how fear and confusion about the aspect ratio question can be used as a crutch by those hesitant to shoot their project for other reasons (i.e. weak script, lack of commitment, etc.); concern for these issues should not be misinterpreted as "stalling" -- a charge I would resent personally. In this uncertain age of the emerging HD paradigm shift, resolution and aspect ratio issues have the potential to derail an otherwise perfectly good project. Especially for those of us who are committed to, and love, shooting on film. One must to be careful about these details, especially on a tight budget.

 

Thank you very much in advance for all your help.

- Christian Janss

[Tim Carroll]

1. Specifically for the Arri S, how exactly do you use scotch tape to show you the 16:9 area of the 4:3 box? Do you have to take the eyecup off and tape or do you tape over the lens shade? How do you know if you've got exactly 16:9, or do you just take a rough guess?

 

Here is the procedure I have used in the past and it works quite well:

 

Get yourself a roll of 3M Scotch Brand Magic Tape. Make yourself a 16:9 image or chart to hang on a wall or display on your computer monitor. Take the eyepiece off of your Arriflex 16S (the whole eyepiece, so you can expose the ground glass, not just the eyecup (see picture)) and gently place the tape on the ground glass. Now point the camera at the 16:9 image or chart you made and zoom in till the right and left edges of the 16:9 image touch the right and left edges of the ground glass. Now study where the 16:9 image falls on the ground glass and carefully move the tape at the top and bottom of the frame to just touch the top and bottom edge of the image. Be very careful not to scratch the ground glass. Trim off the excess tape (I use and Xacto knife and trim around the outside of the ground glass, on the outside of the little metal lip that secures the ground glass in place) and put the eyepiece back onto the camera and focus on the 16:9 image. You may have to repeat this procedure a few times to get the tape in the exact right spot. When you finish the shoot, remove the tape. If there is any residue left on the ground glass, remove it with a fresh piece of tape (placing it over the glass and lifting it off, the residue should lift with the tape).

 

Take your time doing this, and be careful. The pictures below should help.

 

The other advantage to taping of the ground glass this way is that you can still see somewhat of an image through the Scotch Magic Tape so that you can protect the whole Regular 16 (4:3) frame from light units or microphones.

 

Hope that helps,

-Tim

 

[Jim Feldspar]

"But this may beg a broader question, specifically, if I choose to frame for a 16:9 image and it turns out I still use the full regular 16mm 4:3 ratio, won't it look a little funny to have massive space between the actor's head and the top of the frame? So, basically, once I choose to frame for 16:9, scoth tape or no scotch tape, I'm committed to it, right?"

 

 

 

Yes, how about this? I'd like to know too. It seems to me that unless you commit to one or

the other then you're hoping to get the best compromise that you can and while maybe

some of us would just say the heck with it and indeed commit to a given aspect ratio, what

if we're shooting for somebody who's insistent on shooting 16 x 9 but also protecting 4 x 3?

 

The only thing that I can think of right now is making the headrom a little tighter in 16 x 9

than might be done otherwise so that the 4 x 3 image won't have way too much headroom.

 

"Here is the procedure I have used in the past and it works quite well:

 

Take your time doing this, and be careful. The pictures below should help.

 

Hope that helps,

-Tim"

 

 

 

This is an example of what's so great about this forum. Your posting these pictures with

instructions is so great!

Edited January 24, 2007 by Jim Feldspar

[Sam Wells]

I've done exactly what Tim describes but prefer clear tape as then I can see clearly what's just outside of a 1.85 frame. The lines caused by the tape are sufficient for a clearly defined frame. Also you can protect for the full aperture if you want to.

 

-Sam