Vision2 '17

Frank DiBugnara · August 26, 2004

I have a spot coming up (super 16) and after talking to the director about his desired look (very tight grain, high contrast, and saturated colors) I would normally go with the '74 stock.

I know the 7217 woud have significantly tighter grain than the '74---but could I still get the color saturation and contrast out of the '17? This project is of course just finishing on video...but there is a lot of effects/compositing work on it....making the '17 that much more appealing on a grain structure level.

Or if I decided that I had enough light for the 7212---would that be more suited for the look I'm going for? (besides the even tighter grain)

Any thoughts or experiences with the stocks?

Jayson Crothers · August 26, 2004

Hey Frank, glad to hear from you.

I shot a lot of these stocks a few months ago; lots of comparison tests and a few real world settings - I'm not near my specific notes, but this is the general opinion I came to.

Especially for a video finish, the 7217 is great for what it sounds like you're after. I shot identical tests with both 12 and 17 and printed both; I also did tests which involved the 12 being pushed one stop and rated at 200 asa, and the 17 being rated at 100 asa. Even when the 12 was pushed and shot at 200 asa, it was practically indistinguishable from the 17. Grain is incredibly tight and for a video finish you'll have a wide range of latitude to work with in timing.

As for a comparison to the 74 - I personally like my stocks with a bit of snap to them, so I'm a big fan of 93 (hint hint John, don't let it disappear!), but 74 has enough snap for my tastes too - for video, you probably want the extra range the 17 offers so you can punch up the contrast later. No need to go 12 IMHO.

John Pytlak RIP · August 26, 2004

The 7217 and 7212 have similar (very fine) grain structure, but 7212 has better sharpness.

Eric Steelberg ASC · August 26, 2004

I recently shot with 7212 in Super 16 and the telcine op was floored by how good it looked. It was the first time he seen the new Vision in 16mm. I agree with him. It's incredible, though I found it to have less latitiude in the toe than the 17.

Frank DiBugnara · August 26, 2004

Thanks Jayson and everyone for the thoughts.....I'm not gonna have enough light for the '12 but I'm incredibly excited about what these stocks are going to offer to the 16mm world.

Frank

Nitin Sagar · September 6, 2004

any opinion on 7212 shot daylight with or without 85 filter?

is there a filter other than 85 doin the same thing(812 or something..?)

David Mullen ASC · September 6, 2004

There isn't really a substitute for the 85B color correction filter to convert 5500K to 3200K (except the Decamired Red and Coral equivalents to the 85B but those do not have the exact color shade for perfect correction, nor will you be saving any exposure. It's not merely a matter of shifting the color temperature but also using optimal dyes in the filter to reproduce color perfectly, so while the Decamired Red #12 may convert 5500K to 3200K, the 85B uses a particular blend of dyes to get colors to reproduce more naturally for tungsten-balance stock. Same with the Coral #5, I think, compared to the 85B.)

There are filters that PARTIALLY correct the colors (cancel some blue) that also, therefore, lose less light because they are less strong (less dense). Warming filters in general will do the trick -- some are stronger than others. The 81EF, for example, is about a half-stop correction and is about a halfway color-correction. The 812 or something else light like a 1/4 Coral will lose less light but correct less completely as well.

The Tiffen LL-D (Low-Light Daylight) filter is a partial color-correction (cancels a little of the blue) combined with a heavy UV correction, sort of like a Super Skylight filter.

These partial correction filters work because of the latitude of color negative film, which is wide enough to allow you to use no filter at all and color-correct completely in post if necessary (although there are some color shifts when doing this since you are underexposing the red layer.)