What is the favorite format to telecine to?

Sean Stiegemeier · September 2, 2004

What are people's reccomendations when transfering 35mm when it is only going straight to dvd and prints are never going to be made from it? HD maybe, but then you have to be able to edit with the proper equiptment. any advise will help, cause I haven't had the opportunity to try different formats.

David Mullen ASC · September 2, 2004

If you can afford it, I'd telecine the footage to HD-D5 and then make a downconversion to NTSC or PAL for offline editing, create an EDL, and then go back with your original HD-D5 transfers and do an online session to create an HD-D5 conformed (edited) master. Then do a tape-to-tape color-correction session to create a corrected HD master. From that (16:9 full-frame HD) you can make more HD masters like one that is 4:3 side-matted (for making downconversions to 4:3 pan & scan NTSC and PAL) and a letterboxed version if you want an aspect ratio other than 16:9 (1.78 : 1).

For the DVD market, you can downconvert the HD master to 16:9 PAL and NTSC submasters (usually D1 but can be Digital Betacam). For the VHS market, you can either downconvert the full-frame or letterboxed HD master to 4:3 letterboxed PAL and NTSC submasters, or downconvert the 4:3 side-matted HD master to 4:3 full-frame (pan & scan) PAL and NTSC submasters.

Sean Stiegemeier · September 2, 2004

besides the cost of the HD stock does it cost more to telecine in that format? also I have final cut pro HD so if I rented a HD deck, could i just edit from home then use the EDL to make the HD master?

David Mullen ASC · September 2, 2004

HD transfers are more expensive than SD transfers.

Below HD-D5 in cost and quality are HDCAM and DVCPRO-HD, although the last is almost exclusively a camera format. But those two types of HD decks are cheaper to rent than an HD-D5 deck. You could digitize the footage at full HD resolution and create your own conformed master for output back to HD tape -- if you have the right system and enough storage. I know a guy who is editing his own HDCAM footage at home on a Mac at full resolution (although one could edit with footage digitized at a lower resolution and then redigitize at full resolution for a final conform session.) I think he is using FCP.

Keith Mottram · September 2, 2004

It would be perfectly possible to edit on FCP to create an HD master, but it might not be cost effective. I'm conforming a feature for Sony currently on FCP. The system that I am working on is not a 'home system' though. HD monitor, HD card, a couple of terabites of storage, studio monitors, plus a top of the range G5 with four gigs of ram. Your into tens of thousands of dollars. Whereas you could offline on FCP and then conform elsewhere for considerably cheaper. The other option would be to TK to Panasonic HD this would be only 720p but you could do it over firewire. The options that your budget alocates will basically dictate the quality of your master.

Keith

Aaron Tan · September 2, 2004

Hello,

Out of curiousity, and since I've never worked with BetaSP, do the BetaSP decks have firewire out so you can capture the footage into the computer? I've got a project being shot on Super16 and we're going to telecine to MiniDV, but if BetaSP can be captured to the computer I would prefer that instead.

Thanks.

David Mullen ASC · September 2, 2004

No, beta-SP is an analog format; you'd need a A/D converter. DVCAM decks like the Sony DSR11 have a firewire connection -- that's what I bought for home use. Sony Digital Betacam decks will have an SDI option but I don't think they'll do firewire. However, some of the Panasonic decks (DVCPRO, DVCPRO50, DVCPROHD) have a firewire option.

Phil Rhodes · September 2, 2004

Hi,

Just for the record if one does find oneself in the situation of needing to capture from a Beta SP deck into a firewire-based NLE, there are component to 1394 convertors which do a reasonable job. Some are quite cheap, down to a few hundred units of currency, while others have more careful analogue-side electronics and also handle timecode and device control.

Good call on the DSR-11. Do you have the ubiquitous FCP suite with it?

Phil

David Mullen ASC · September 2, 2004

No, right now I just have some cheap editing software from Pinnacle (I'm PC-based). Simple drag and drop editing. It's a little buggy when time to render but it works.

John Sprung · September 2, 2004

D5 is generally regarded as the best current format, with HDcam a very close second. That's likely to remain true for several weeks into the future. But there's a new format, HDcam SR 4:4:4, which is substantially better than both current formats. Facilities ramping up clearly won't be ready for this TV season, but I expect to be doing everything in SR 4:4:4 next season. Effects shows will be the first to change, because the full bandwidth color gives them much cleaner green/blue screen mattes. SR decks can play original HDcam, so at this time I'd be more inclined to go that way. A few years out, having masters on D5 will mean having to find a deck that still works, like it is now with D2 and D3.

-- J.S.

Phil Rhodes · September 2, 2004

Hi,

I think for many situations, tape formats are on the way out. Frequently a DI feature will stay as data files on hard drives absolutely the whole way through, only coming out to tape for previews. Hard disk arrays will give you untouched, uncompressed virgin images at any resolution you choose which are readable on anything from a desktop effects workstation to a huge colour correction suite. It's networkable and manipulatable with off the shelf hardware and the availability is second to none. Compare this with a D5 or HDCAM SR tape which requires a six-figure deck for playback, and you either handle it in realtime or bust.

It's Da Footcha, guys!

Phil

John Sprung · September 3, 2004

I think for many situations, tape formats are on the way out. Frequently a DI feature will stay as data files on hard . Compare this with a D5 or HDCAM SR tape which requires a six-figure deck for playback,

Tape vs. disk depends on how much running time we're talking about, and the size of the pieces of time we need to address and manipulate.

For post production work, we may have 5 to 500 hours of dailies, and we need to grab chunks a couple seconds each and put them together to make something half an hour to a couple hours long. Instant random access makes discs the way to do that.

But consider what we do with those thousands -- or is it millions -- of finished works of half an hour to a few hours each. For the most part, they're on tapes stored in places that look like the last shot in "Raiders of the Lost Ark". (At least ours do.) Maybe some day we'll have a removable recordable disc technology for that, but for now, tape remains the best choice.

-- J.S.

Michael Most · September 5, 2004

A few years out, having masters on D5 will mean having to find a deck that still works, like it is now with D2 and D3.

John, you don't really believe that Panasonic is going to cede the 4:4:4 market to Sony, do you? Have you forgotten that D5 started out as a standard def only format? The HD version was originally an add-on, outboard chassis that connected to the original transport. Although I don't have any hard proof, my guess would be that you will see a 4:4:4 enabled D5 format within a reasonable time frame that will be backward compatible with current recordings, the same way the 3700 (I think that's the model number of the current version, with additional audio tracks) is backwards compatible with the 2700 (the previous format with fewer audio tracks).

Unfortunately for those of us who have to deal with it, I also believe that we will never see a single, universal format standard in the video world in my lifetime.

John Sprung · September 7, 2004

you don't really believe that Panasonic is going to cede the 4:4:4 market to Sony, do you?

I also believe that we will never see a single, universal format standard in the video world in my lifetime.

Hi, Mike --

I've probably already said more here than I should on an open internet forum. If you want, we can discuss it by e-mail. You can reach me at my wife's home account, Maryam101@Juno.com.

-- J.S.

September 14, 2004

Hi,

I just have a question on telecine. Fairly simple one, what is it?

David Mullen ASC · September 14, 2004

A device for transferring film to video ("Tele" = TV; "cine" = Film). A type of scanner.

Cris Moris · September 14, 2004

Hey David,

Why wouldn't one do a timed transfer directly onto HD D5 and avoid the Tape to Tape color correction session? Is it costs?

Also is there a website that has a diagram with every single aspect ratio?

thanks

David Mullen ASC · September 14, 2004

It's certainly possible but once shots are cut together, there are invaritably some adjustments needed to improve to visual flow. If you color-correct the original transfer, the final tape-to-tape may not be necessary or it may go very quickly. But for a feature, with some thousand edits, I think it's inevitable to color-correct the final version.