red camlera delivery starts, next products: 4k projector, ultracompact red and 4k displays. prime lens set.

[jan von krogh]

the 4k displays and projectors as well as the minired have no precise info atm, information about them was given in direct interviews inly so far.

 

the camera delivery is starting this april. our first will be 07/2007, second 09/2007.

 

they aim for over 3500 cameras to be delivered in 2007.

 

the red zoom now costs 5900/6500 USD, its 18-50F2.8, arri pl mount. s35 coverage. i suppose we will stay with our several angenieux zooms, however the price is incredible - we will see LOTS of these zooms i suppose.

 

prime set is 5 lenses, 4@f1.9, one at f2.8, complete set is 19.995$. i think we will skip this and stay with our 1.2 zeiss-set, however the price/performace ratio is outstanding here as well.

 

orders seem to -flood- in at nab, stampede @ the red booth.

 

http://www.studiodaily.com/main/news/7959.html

has some nice sum ups.

 

this is indeed a historical day. 4k digital cinemaproduction as the new standard has begun.

[Scott Fritzshall]

This is the most amazing thing ever. No event in history has ever been this important. Please, Jan, make a new thread for every single word that Jim Jannard utters; I simply don't think you've made enough.

 

In all seriousness, this is neat, and I'm interested to see how this all turns out. I just think we can do with less breathless amazement at every single thing that RED does, and I certainly don't think we need a new thread for them all either.

[Stephen Williams]

the 4k displays and projectors as well as the minired have no precise info atm, information about them was given in direct interviews inly so far.

 

the camera delivery is starting this april. our first will be 07/2007, second 09/2007.

 

they aim for over 3500 cameras to be delivered in 2007.

 

the red zoom now costs 5900/6500 USD, its 18-50F2.8, arri pl mount. s35 coverage. i suppose we will stay with our several angenieux zooms, however the price is incredible - we will see LOTS of these zooms i suppose.

 

prime set is 5 lenses, 4@f1.9, one at f2.8, complete set is 19.995$. i think we will skip this and stay with our 1.2 zeiss-set, however the price/performace ratio is outstanding here as well.

 

orders seem to -flood- in at nab, stampede @ the red booth.

 

http://www.studiodaily.com/main/news/7959.html

has some nice sum ups.

 

this is indeed a historical day. 4k digital cinemaproduction as the new standard has begun.

 

wow! if only there were 3500 good scripts a year.

[jan von krogh]

This is the most amazing thing ever. No event in history has ever been this important. Please, Jan, make a new thread for every single word that Jim Jannard utters; I simply don't think you've made enough.

 

In all seriousness, this is neat, and I'm interested to see how this all turns out. I just think we can do with less breathless amazement at every single thing that RED does, and I certainly don't think we need a new thread for them all either.

 

Dear scott, this is why i summarized all the new products in one thread. that is today. apple supporting red was yesterday. and peter jackson deserves his own thread, as he is as well no red employee but volouteered to shoot the first red 4k shortfilm.

 

sheer madness at nab btw, quoting mike seymour of fxguide.com....

 

"The orders are flooding in - the queues are out the booth round the corner and down the hall to get in. Jim is greeting everyone in the 4K cinema and of course the booth is extremely busy."

[Eric Steelberg ASC]

wow! if only there were 3500 good scripts a year.

 

 

THANK YOU FOR SAYING IT STEPHEN.

[jan von krogh]

so, more new products

 

# Canon EOS lens mount produced by Birger Engineering and Red

# SuperGrip - a variation upon the current handles available for the RedRail/Cage setups, including remote control of Canon EOS lens mount as well as...

# Red Motor, seems to be a motorized follow focus since and is listed along with the SuperGrip as a lens accessory.

 

hmmm, one 8 man startup takes on arri, panavision, panavision, sony, zeiss, cooke and angenieux at once and sells like mad and has peter jackson volounteering to shot their promos... 18 months ago i would judged anyone who told me so nuts, now its reality.

[Galen Carter-Jeffrey]

Before I left, RED dropped another little tidbit of information on me: Jim Jannard and Jarred Land had just returned from two days of shooting with two of the RED camera prototypes, ?Boris? and ?Natasha.? Returned from where? From New Zealand, where they were shooting with Peter Jackson, Oscar-winning Director of the Lord of the Rings trilogy

 

 

:lol:

It's written like we don't know who Peter Jackson is.

[jan von krogh]

wow! if only there were 3500 good scripts a year.

 

sadly most movies have rather mediocre scripts, however, i don´t think that the red cameras here will only shoot one feature a year and on the other hand, using 8 or more cameras for features is pretty usual.

 

also, i think we can be pretty sure that not all 3500 cameras will see cinematic feature work, commercials, clips, gfx and even postpropeople seem to be a solid part of the buyers.

 

also, 3500 cameras is just 2007 and not counting the pocketred which, as the 4k projector and the 4k display has no delivery date at this moment. all other products however are on delivery this april or starting to be delivered until end of the year.

 

i have only guesstimates for the sales of the newer arris, but i would be really curious how many 235 and 416 have been sold.

 

i hope arri now finally wakes up, its really about time now. since 6 years i tell them every single tradeshow that i want to buy a digital arri, not rent - and the d20 is no match for the red in almost any aspect. hope its no too late for them now and they have something up their sleeves

 

would hate to see after steenbeck, leica, bosch broadcast, dual, grundig etc another once champion world-class manufacturer being reduced or worse because they didn´t adapt to digital.

[jan von krogh]

here are some photos of the booth. the waiting line goes down the hall until the exit and they have bouncers at the door to let the people in in groups.

 

http://zakforrest.com/pictures/rednab/rednab.html

[Stuart Brereton]

hmmm, one 8 man startup takes on arri, panavision, panavision, sony, zeiss, cooke and angenieux at once and sells like mad and has peter jackson volunteering to shot their promos... 18 months ago i would judged anyone who told me so nuts, now its reality.

 

Yeah, I bet they're shitting themselves.

 

Now that the RED camera is a reality, can't you come clean, Jan? You DO work for them, don't you....?

 

<_<

[jan von krogh]

Yeah, I bet they're shitting themselves.

 

Now that the RED camera is a reality, can't you come clean, Jan? You DO work for them, don't you....?

 

<_<

 

no, i am just a customer for 2 cameras for our production and rental, which i have to fully pay for, besides the $5,000 bonus we got as early customer - but red gave anyone who preordered $2.500 for free shopping, ludwig in munich has 12.500$ for his 5 cams :)

 

rental seems to become quite interesting with red one. right now we are pretty undecided how we will price red, but it seems that the reds will be the fastest breakeven we ever had in 17 years with any camera, crashcams not included.

 

besides, red has 9 employees at this moment in time. i think we can assume that there will be -some- additional jobs created this very moment.

[Alexander Joyce]

and the d20 is no match for the red in almost any aspect.

 

I'd like to hear you back up this statement..

 

the D20 for instance is built around components that have proven themselves in the field for several years, it's a modular design that makes it easily upgradable when ARRI release a new back for it, it's chip is also physically larger than the Red's.

ARRI might not be the first to jump onto the 4K craze that seems to have hit everyone, but when they eventually do it, it will most likely be done the right way.

[Max Jacoby]

I don't give a flying fu** how many people work there. Stop acting like Red the best thing since sliced bread and is going to 'anihilate' everyone else. Arri, Panavision, Kodak and Fuji and other manufacturers are still going to be here in the future. Different people need different solutions/equipment. Red might be the best option for you, but that does not mean everyone has those same requirements also. You're really getting on everyone's nerves with your silly 'predicitons' and championing of a product that you don't even had the opportunity to test for yourself.

[Tenolian Bell]

they aim for over 3500 cameras to be delivered in 2007.

 

The other shoe will drop at some point. Electronics is a tricky industry. Its can be very difficult to engineer a new product with few manufacturing defects. Then roll out large orders of the product and have them work reliably.

 

Arri and Panavision usually do extensive tests of their gear before they do a large roll out. Arri tested the Arricam for a couple of years before it began taking a lot of orders for the camera.

[David Sweetman]

Nah, I heard it's still a hoax. Jim fills up the screening room, then says "So...who's heard about scientology?"

[Andrew Ray]

Jan, did you get my mail?

I need your rental business tel#

[jan von krogh]

I'd like to hear you back up this statement..

 

the D20 for instance is built around components that have proven themselves in the field for several years, it's a modular design that makes it easily upgradable when ARRI release a new back for it, it's chip is also physically larger than the Red's.

ARRI might not be the first to jump onto the 4K craze that seems to have hit everyone, but when they eventually do it, it will most likely be done the right way.

 

arris camera has less resolution.

D20

3100 x 2200 grid, used 2880 x 1620 pixel grid, out converted to 1920 x 1080 resolution, 4:3 aspect sensor.

RED

4900 x 2580 grid, used 4520 x 2540 pixelgrid, full out as RAW, S35 aspect sensor

 

arri d20 sensor has

6 megapixel

RED

12 megapixel

 

has less fps

D20

1-60fps

RED

1-120fps

 

D20 has only

duallink HD-SDI

RED has this as well, but it only can transmit 25% of the image, additionally there is the rawport for uncompressed out, disk, cf, flash etc for 4k redcode

 

D20 has only a streamlined HDCAMSR/diskrecorder workflow

RED can be edited native in 4k and can target to -any- quicktime/video for windows/cineon etc compliant application via redcine.

 

ARRI

7 kg

RED

4.5 KG

 

arri is pretty large and bulky, red is compact, not much larger than a hvx200 as reference.

 

ARRI D20 has only HD-SDI or RAW

RED has HD-SDI, RAW and several waveletbasing compressions

 

D20 is a Camerahead, not a camcorder

RED is a camcorder with integrated recording

 

arri rental only, quite expensive, costing $$$$ a day

red rental or buy, revolutionary price, rental will be $$$. so for some one or two week worth of shooting d20, you can easily buy a red.

 

D20 requires additional gear with high prices for recording (venon, hdcam sr deck etc)

RED doesn´t.

 

D20 can´t uses off-the-shelf media

RED can use compact flash, Expresscard etc etc.

 

no pun intended- i can´t find a single specification in which D20 has any advantage over the red.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jan, did you get my mail?

I need your rental business tel#

 

sorry, my pm folder is flooded - will respond asap via PM.

[Stuart Brereton]

arris camera has less resolution.

D20

3100 x 2200 grid, used 2880 x 1620 pixel grid, out converted to 1920 x 1080 resolution, 4:3 aspect sensor.

RED

4900 x 2580 grid, used 4520 x 2540 pixelgrid, full out as RAW, S35 aspect sensor

 

arri d20 sensor has

6 megapixel

RED

12 megapixel

 

has less fps

D20

1-60fps

RED

1-120fps

 

D20 has only

duallink HD-SDI

RED has this as well, but it only can transmit 25% of the image, additionally there is the rawport for uncompressed out, disk, cf, flash etc for 4k redcode

 

D20 has only a streamlined HDCAMSR/diskrecorder workflow

RED can be edited native in 4k and can target to -any- quicktime/video for windows/cineon etc compliant application via redcine.

 

ARRI

7 kg

RED

4.5 KG

 

arri is pretty large and bulky, red is compact, not much larger than a hvx200 as reference.

 

ARRI D20 has only HD-SDI or RAW

RED has HD-SDI, RAW and several waveletbasing compressions

 

D20 is a Camerahead, not a camcorder

RED is a camcorder with integrated recording

 

arri rental only, quite expensive, costing $$$$ a day

red rental or buy, revolutionary price, rental will be $$$. so for some one or two week worth of shooting d20, you can easily buy a red.

 

D20 requires additional gear with high prices for recording (venon, hdcam sr deck etc)

RED doesn´t.

 

D20 can´t uses off-the-shelf media

RED can use compact flash, Expresscard etc etc.

 

no pun intended- i can´t find a single specification in which D20 has any advantage over the red.

sorry, my pm folder is flooded - will respond asap via PM.

 

And, up until today, RED did not officially exist.

 

And, is still completely untried and untested.

 

Jan, if you are as experienced as you say in the world of Rental equipment, then you should know that each product finds it's market, and that no single product serves all needs. Quit the flag waving and let RED (finally) speak for itself.

[jan von krogh]

Stop acting like Red the best thing since sliced bread and is going to 'anihilate' everyone else.

i think this decision is up to the buyers, and the figures speak for themself.

 

Arri, Panavision, Kodak and Fuji and other manufacturers are still going to be here in the future.

yound padawan, i have seen ampex as so many other once incredibly huge corps going down..... and i wouldn´t put arri & panavision together with kodak & fuji in one basket. kodaks main business is already digital, and arri & panavision are pretty small companys compared to kodak.

 

so, let me quote the CEO of kodak.

 

Antonio Perez, its chief executive, asserts: "Soon, I'm not going to be answering questions about film because I won't know. It will be too small for me to get involved."

 

http://us.ft.com/ftgateway/superpage.ft?ne...id=yahoofinance

 

You're really getting on everyone's nerves with your silly 'predicitons' and championing of a product that you don't even had the opportunity to test for yourself.

this might apply to you, but certainly not for the members of the board who send me pms because they want to rent red asap.

 

however, if you don´t like discussion about red, then leave the red subforum please.

[Dan Goulder]

rental seems to become quite interesting with red one. right now we are pretty undecided how we will price red, but it seems that the reds will be the fastest breakeven we ever had in 17 years with any camera, crashcams not included.

Please share with us the name of your rental company, and the web address. After all, with so many European members on this forum, it would be an obvious place to pick up business.

[Max Jacoby]

however, if you don´t like discussion about red, then leave the red subforum please.

Oh I like to discuss the Red camera alright, but unfortunately there is very little hard information as hardly anyone, including you, has had first-hand use of the camera.

 

What's a 'yound padawan' btw?

 

Please share with us the name of your rental company, and the web address. After all, with so many European members on this forum, it would be an obvious place to pick up business.

www.laguun.de

 

Unfortunately there are no lists with equipment that's for rental on the website. But if you're interested in renting in Europe I can recommend you some companies whose service I've enjoyed.

[jan von krogh]

And, up until today, RED did not officially exist.

i have seen the first images shot with red on 4k back in september 2006 and we placed the order basing on the prototype specs in april 2004 - the official presentations of footage in los angeles, amsterdam etc were pretty real.

 

And, is still completely untried and untested.

david stump, ASC and peter jackson might say different things.... however, we have one month planned in for testshooting and workflow benchmarking etc before we let the reds into the pipeline.

 

Jan, if you are as experienced as you say in the world of Rental equipment, then you should know that each product finds it's market, and that no single product serves all needs. Quit the flag waving and let RED (finally) speak for itself.

sir, i am waving no flags here, i am simply posting facts and news of red in the redsubforum. furthermore, in rental business as in the production side (which is larger btw) of our operations, i have learned in the recent 17 years that there are -OFTEN- products who dominate markets to >90%, arri did that for sure with their 35mm line for the buying part of the market. and yes, there will be place for almost -any- manufacturer, but i am really afraid about arri camera dept. the 35mm camera market is well saturated, and now, as the digital cinematic production is going in its second generation, it is terrible to see that "our" arri has no defense against a small newcomer.

 

p.s. my grandmother luise worked at arri and i would buy at arri without in the blink of an eye if they would have a competeting product for red. and arri CAN produce competeting products to red, if they decide so - but they better don´t wait any longer now.

[Eirik Tyrihjel]

p.s. my grandmother luise worked at arri and i would buy at arri without in the blink of an eye if they would have a competeting product for red. and arri CAN produce competeting products to red, if they decide so - but they better don´t wait any longer now.

 

When I started out in films, you couldn´t get around a Steenbeck... just a few years later they litteraly vanished from the face of the earth... before they knew what hit them NLE systems were popping up everywhere FAST... this could be a repeat of that. If I were a major shareholder at Arri, Panavision or any other company basing it´s profit of 35mm aquisition/processing I would be a bit worried now (maybe even very worried).

 

Filmmaking has been changin a lot through it´s history, the move to digital is inevitable, and probably imminent, and RED seems to be getting themselves into pole position.

Edited April 16, 2007 by Eirik Tyrihjel

[jan von krogh]

www.laguun.de

this is not the rental website :)

 

we "only" have 3 rental cameras until red enhances that to 5, only one zeiss prime set, 4 angenieux zooms, one older cooke prime set, 2 class 1 hd crts, 1 hdcam vtr, 1 colorviewfinder, 2 vector/wavescopes, 1 followfocus and ca. ~100 peripherals and not any solid light .... less than 1.5 million euro total. also, we rent out only when we don´t (co)produce ourself. so i wouldn´t consider us to be in one league with the likes of ludwig, fgv etc... (their website http://fgv-rental.de/ is even more catastropic than ours, which is an archivement in itself :) which i would consider as full rental-houses.

 

our customers are mainly the usual suspects of berlins filmscene, as dcs, salzgeber, kahuuna, x-filme, wüste, cmate, seven years etc. and we know almost any of our customers on a personal base and always make a pricing which fits their project, discussing if we co-produce or if they will get the gear to a date when it fits better in our production schedule to get a better price etc... its all pretty small.

 

with red however, rental demand seems to be so strong in 2007 that we will go nation-wide with marketing and a different website (which i don´t link yet as its less than a prototype atm).

 

however, if you google for "hdcam mieten" etc, you will find that we mainly rely on erento.com for rental, as this platform is much easier to maintain.

 

so,

http://erento.com/mieten/suche/?vermiet=KT...W31&ptype=1

would be a better link than laguun, which basicly is just a contact info.

[Andrew Ray]

Impression from the NAB floor....

 

All outdoor, completely unlike any test footage you've ever seen as it is completely shot like a mini feature. Tons of arials, explosions, etc " written and directed by peter jackson". Who else could get a legend to shoot the sample footage? Dozens of actors in period costumes, tanks, guns, dogfights, but most of all--filled with emotion and real film making.

 

If there was any green screen--it was flawless. Several quoted that it was shot over 2 days, a lot hand held by peter himself. Not a "video" shot in a single frame--just jaw dropping resolution and dynamic range. From the opening shots the room was completly sucked of oxegen as everone gasped at once.

 

Second eye witness?

 

I have seen a lot of camera demonstrations, but none quite as incredible as sitting down and watching this. Shot with Boris and Natasha a couple of weeks ago, alpha models capable only of "stop/start" and running 24 fps with 180 degree shutter. It was all shot in Redcode to Red drives, so the total amount of material shot is only 500 GB. Lenses used were a set of Cooke Primes and a 24-290 Optimo.

 

The material, a wonderful battle sequence set during WW1, is all daylight, location material, and almost feels like a response to shouts about lack of movement in the milk girls material. Explosions, helicopter material, WW1 dogfight between a bi- and a triplane, rocks the camera. Dust, dirt, rocks, it's all there, and it's all very gritty.

 

My intention was obviously to scrutinize the image, but I found myself invariably drawn into the story instead of focusing on the material.

 

When the lights came back up, the room was in total silence.

 

This is it, guys. It's the real deal.