Benjamin Smith Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 I am doing a documentary in wich the interviews will be filmed with the HVX200 and the footage will be filmed on RED. Do you see any inherent problems with this other than the obvious 1080 to 4k difference. Will they match up at least decently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member John Sprung Posted September 10, 2007 Premium Member Share Posted September 10, 2007 I am doing a documentary in wich the interviews will be filmed with the HVX200 and the footage will be filmed on RED. Do you see any inherent problems with this other than the obvious 1080 to 4k difference. Will they match up at least decently? IIRC, the chip is actually only 540 x 960 on the HVX200. I guess you could degrade the Red stuff to match, but why not shoot it all on Red? -- J.S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Adam Thompson Posted September 10, 2007 Premium Member Share Posted September 10, 2007 IMO I dont see any reason there would be a problem. I've seen plenty of interviews done on nice SD cams that cut well with anything else around it. The biggest reason for this is the fact that interviews are basically close ups that don't really move and that are highly controlled. And why on earth anyone would want to shoot an interview in UHD or 2 or 3.whatever K the red is, is beyond me. Anyone who has done it with 35mm or even S16 is usually adding diffusion somehow to lower the effect high res. images can have on a person in a still frame interview, even more so if its a female. As long as you arent blowing out their skin with some harsh spotlight, no one would ever know or care for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Smith Posted September 10, 2007 Author Share Posted September 10, 2007 IIRC, the chip is actually only 540 x 960 on the HVX200. I guess you could degrade the Red stuff to match, but why not shoot it all on Red? -- J.S. I am not using the red on interviews because the interview itslef actually will consist of 7 cams and I don't have 7 red's. Do you have any other opinion o cams other than the HVX200 that would match better with red Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Rogers Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 IMO I dont see any reason there would be a problem. I've seen plenty of interviews done on nice SD cams that cut well with anything else around it. The biggest reason for this is the fact that interviews are basically close ups that don't really move and that are highly controlled. And why on earth anyone would want to shoot an interview in UHD or 2 or 3.whatever K the red is, is beyond me. Anyone who has done it with 35mm or even S16 is usually adding diffusion somehow to lower the effect high res. images can have on a person in a still frame interview, even more so if its a female. As long as you arent blowing out their skin with some harsh spotlight, no one would ever know or care for that matter. Actually, if you are like me, one of the reasons for shooting such high resolution is that you get to use very nice cine lenses. They are going to be sharper, color rendition is going to be better, and you get a shallow depth of field easier. Plus, there's the fact that 4k downsampled to SD is going to look beautiful. In reality, it's all about having options. Matthew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Chad Stockfleth Posted September 10, 2007 Premium Member Share Posted September 10, 2007 why 7 cameras for the interview? that's a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin Greenwalt Posted September 16, 2007 Share Posted September 16, 2007 I wouldn't want to intercut that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin Greenwalt Posted September 16, 2007 Share Posted September 16, 2007 why 7 cameras for the interview? that's a lot. But with any less you wouldn't be able to do bullet-time at key talking points. :D "I believe that the government shouldn't execute *BOOSHOOOOEEUUIII* (Spin around subject) *OOOOUIISHHHHH!!* prisoners without a having allowed a full appeal process to be carried out." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Adam Thompson Posted September 17, 2007 Premium Member Share Posted September 17, 2007 I am not using the red on interviews because the interview itslef actually will consist of 7 cams and I don't have 7 red's. Do you have any other opinion o cams other than the HVX200 that would match better with red Do you really have a choice when you need 7 cams? The HVX is the best overall of the toy cams. That seems kind of over the top though, just curious why. If you can afford it, maybe using Varicams or F900's would match better but that will be crazy rental $$. What video cams were you comparing Gavin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Williams Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 My DV camera takes better pictures than that? Surely thats an old VHS camera? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Häakon Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 What video cams were you comparing Gavin? RED footage is on the left, HVX on the right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex D. da Silva Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 RED footage is on the left, HVX on the right. Hi Haakon, I've just finished shooting a doc with the HVX and our footage looks quite good. The RED fooatge will look much better granted but you should check your settings for the HVX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timur Civan Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 Yea your HVX settings look WAY off. And were you downressing 4k, and Blowingup 1080? what exactly were you doing.... I understand youre making a point but something looks wrong there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Olson Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 That frame grab from the HVX (if that's what that is on the right) is ridiculous. I don't buy it. I'm not arguing that the HVX would be the ideal camera to cut with 35mm or 4k, but that image is not properly focused or the backfocus is off or something. Like the VariCam, the HVX does resolve soft by comparison. This is a 1280 x 720 JPEG grab from the native MXF timeline with no correction. e Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Olson Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 With a cursory color curve application... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Tyler Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 The HVX doesn't look that bad. Not by a long shot. Attached are a couple of stills from a PBS show I shot not long ago. These are completely unretouched 720P 24pN right from the MXF's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timur Civan Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 HVX200 720p AND a 35 adapter....... Looks pretty crisp to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member John Sprung Posted September 17, 2007 Premium Member Share Posted September 17, 2007 What these images prove is that we can't tell 4k Bayer from 1k three chip on our computer monitors. We're seeing the limits of the displays, not the cameras. -- J.S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Häakon Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 Hi Haakon, The RED fooatge will look much better granted but you should check your settings for the HVX. Yea your HVX settings look WAY off. Hi, This was not my footage, I don't know the shooter, and I have no connection to this shoot. I simply was providing the requested information about what cameras were used to shoot each frame. The shots were made publicly available on the REDUser website with some accompanying information here: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4552 According to the poster, their RED went down and the RED company was quick to provide a loaner camera, but they went ahead and tried to use an HVX in the meantime to avoid too much downtime. His posted workflow for the HVX clips was, "just opened HVX clips in FCP and exported PNG. Opened in photoshop to change image size to 1280." He then did a side-by-side of the HVX footage he shot and the RED footage he re-shot later, and the results are what you see above. What these images prove is that we can't tell 4k Bayer from 1k three chip on our computer monitors. We're seeing the limits of the displays, not the cameras.-- J.S. If you can't tell the difference between those two images on your monitor, we've got a bigger problem than the limits of the displays... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seung Han Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 Those images are zoomed in and cropped in PSD to show the difference in resolution, which happens to be a lot... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Olson Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 Obviously, we know there isn't a comparison between a 1/3" 1920x1080 or 1280x720 image to what is ostensibly 4k RAW. What is being stated is that the HVX image can indeed be intercut against larger formats and has had successful 35mm filmouts, nothing more, nothing less. Wherever that "side-by-side" image came from, and whatever degrading process(es) were applied to it afterward, it isn't a fair representation of what the camera is capable of - not even in DVCPro50. Anyway, the grabs you see provided on the previous pages are more indicative of what people get from the HVX "raw" in 720p. There is a marked improvement in 1080p modes, though many of us [used to] shy away from it due to the initially small P2 card sizes. Cheers, e Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Gross Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 So what you're saying is that a cheap little camera is not as good as a more expensive camera with much higher specs? Wow, brainstorm. You could always match the footage by trashing the crap out of the RED in a color correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Williams Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 The RED will downconvert and capture to a lessor format should be easy to match to the HVX200? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Olson Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 For every pure application where 35mm negative cinematography makes sense, there are guys out there like Rodney Charters who utilize the tools that are available to best do the job at hand. He's experimented with everything, drawn conclusions, made suggestions and gotten back to work. Not emotional about it. If recollection serves, he's been using HDV footage in process plates. I think 24's process work looks just fine. Granted, it is intended for HD or SD broadcast only. Maybe it would suffer in a filmout, but we're not talking about that then. e Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member John Sprung Posted September 18, 2007 Premium Member Share Posted September 18, 2007 If you can't tell the difference between those two images on your monitor, we've got a bigger problem than the limits of the displays... Referring to the Olson, Tyler, and Civan images, not the Greenwalt. -- J.S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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