s16-HD Telecine Options

David Regan · December 18, 2007

I know this topic has been discussed before, and searching for it led to some clarity but I still have some questions, also prompted from what I read in people's replys.

I am about to start shooting a film super16, and we want get a 1080p transfer, first to tape and then it will be put on a hard drive. However due to costs concerns, getting all our raw footage transfered to HD was too pricy, so we are getting the raw footage on miniDV, then sending the EDL to the lab and getting the cut transfered to HD and the drive.

I have never done this workflow before, and to be honest am somewhat daunted by the entire post-production/lab workflow, as I am not extremely experienced with it. So my first question is, what frame rate should I get it transfered at? Is there a difference between 24p and 23.98PsF? I noticed on another thread the terms were used interchangably, so should I specify one over the other?

What about Timecode, when sending out an EDL, is there any specifics I need to inform the lab of to ensure the sound syncs up, i.e. drop frame vs. non drop-frame TC?

And finally as far as workflow is concerned, can all post sound work/color correction etc be held until after the final transfer to HD? Because really we are just getting our final cut back as a file on a hard-drive.

I know these are probably fairly large questions about a very broad topic, but I'm just trying to chisel away a bit more at my understanding of the post-production process and workflow. Thanks for the help.

Landon D. Parks · December 24, 2007

Bonolabs will transfer 16 to HD on a Hard Drive for around $12 per minute of run-time. This means for a 100 minute feature, your looking at $1,200.00 + the cost of Setup, Prep and cleaning and your Hard Drive rental. Click here http://www.bonolabs.com/p_list_tapeless.pdf for the entire price list.

Edited December 24, 2007 by Landon D. Parks

David Mullen ASC · December 24, 2007

Since Mini-DV is not an HD format, the transfer would be to 59.94i for NTSC -- your 24 fps footage would be transferred at 23.976 fps and a 3:2 pulldown added to get to 59.94i.

If you are doing a transfer to HD, then probably you'd use 23.98, not 24 -- I'm not sure it matters one way or the other in terms of matching your EDL to the keycode numbers, it's more of sound editing issue.

David Regan · December 24, 2007

Bonolabs will transfer 16 to HD on a Hard Drive for around $12 per minute of run-time. This means for a 100 minute feature, your looking at $1,200.00 + the cost of Setup, Prep and cleaning and your Hard Drive rental. Click here http://www.bonolabs.com/p_list_tapeless.pdf for the entire price list.

Good to know thanks for the tip, unfortunately we are already mid-production, with film at the lab we are using now (Postworks in NYC) but I'll definitely keep that in mind for next time. Have you worked with Bonolabs before? Any idea on how good a job they do in transfer/timing?

Since Mini-DV is not an HD format, the transfer would be to 59.94i for NTSC -- your 24 fps footage would be transferred at 23.976 fps and a 3:2 pulldown added to get to 59.94i.

If you are doing a transfer to HD, then probably you'd use 23.98, not 24 -- I'm not sure it matters one way or the other in terms of matching your EDL to the keycode numbers, it's more of sound editing issue.

Ok thanks, so I take it as long as our editor keeps good track of things, and edits in 23.98 timebase we will be all set. And yes we plan to get our HD transfer at 23.98.

Michael Most · December 24, 2007

Bonolabs will transfer 16 to HD on a Hard Drive for around $12 per minute of run-time. This means for a 100 minute feature, your looking at $1,200.00 + the cost of Setup, Prep and cleaning and your Hard Drive rental. Click here http://www.bonolabs.com/p_list_tapeless.pdf for the entire price list.

Nobody - not Bono, nor anyone else - will price it that way if what's being transferred is select shots, which requires cuing and editing each shot individually, with time codes matched to the original DVCam transfer. In fact, I'm not at all sure that Bono will even do a time coded transfer, let alone one with slaved time code. Not to mention that you must include handles in any select transfer, which adds to the footage total considerably. 100 minutes of edited final picture does not mean exactly 3600 feet of transfer (that's the footage total for 16mm, @36 feet per minute).

Don't believe what you read on an Internet forum. Call some reputable labs (you're already working with one in Post Works) and get an estimate. And be honest about what you're going to need, what information you're going to supply to them, how you're going to supply it, and what your expectations are, in terms of both quality and turnaround. Think about what your final product is actually going to be and how it's going to get that way - in other words, if your final delivery is going to be in HD, exactly what format will that be? How will you create a delivery element, such as an HDCam or HDCam SR tape? In other words, what is worth doing yourself and what isn't, especially given that involving the company doing your film transfer in other steps of post production will likely get you more favorable pricing (not to mention highly skilled talent in areas like conforming and color correction)? Think like a businessman or a producer rather than an individual.

Adam Frisch FSF · December 25, 2007

Maybe they've updated they're equipment since then, but the Bono Lab HD comparison I saw (against a Spirit) really put a shame to the Bono Lab one. In fact, it was really bad. As I said, I don't want to slag them off if they've updated their gear since them (and they generally seem like a nice and film-friendly outfit), so take this con granul salis.