I need a 10mm Cinegon for My Leicina Special

Tony Bullock · February 1, 2008

I have just bought my first Leicina Special which came with the 6-66mm zoom lens. I am on the lookout for a 10mm Cinegon prime lens to complete my setup.

Could anyone point me in the right direction for finding one 2nd hand. I have looked on ebay etc, but There isn't anything for sale at the moment.

Many thanks in advance.

February 1, 2008

Try Super 8 Camera Shop (http://www.super8camera-shop.com/shop/inde...M_II_KIT625.htm). They're offering two right now.

Tony Bullock · February 2, 2008

Ouch! Costs nearly as much as the camera. Mind, I suppose it is leica glass and is regarded

as the best prime lens available for a super8 camera so I might just take the plunge.

Many thanks for the info. ;)

andy oliver · February 3, 2008

Hi, unless your really desperate for a 10mm, just bide your time, one will show up on ebay eventually, i picked up a special body last month, full working order for only £112.00. mind you, it was january, guess people like me were strapped for cash:(

chuck colburn · February 3, 2008

The Angenieux 10, 15 25, (can be had in a f0.95 version) 50, and 75mm "C" mount lenses are good bang for the buck.

kevin jackman · February 4, 2008

from what i understand c mount lenses will not fit, or at least there are no adaptors for them. an even better lens than the leica 10mm is the zeiss. you could fit one witn an arri adaptor

Michael Lehnert · February 4, 2008

Exactly!

C-Mount lenses DO NOT fit onto the Leitz Leicina Special! There are no C-Mount adapters to M-Mount, because it is phyically impossible.

Folks, please be careful about overrelying on C-Mount, which is not a universal standard, not in 16mm, and certainly not in Super 8! From all the manufacturers, only Beaulieu went down the C-Mount route!

Leitz used its own M-Mount. Unlike C-Mount lenses which have to be screwed into the camera, the M-Mount is a bayonet which locks the correctly aligned lens after a slight rotation. Likewise, pulling the red alignment marker on the camera body back releases the lens.

Leitz's reliance on M-Mount stems from the confidence that its Leica-M prime and vario lenses are outstanding in both quality and range and are hence competitive to Beaulieu going with C-Mount.

Leitz offered various M-Mount adapters to expand the Special's options, but only to Leicaflex, Leicathread, M42, Canon, Minolta and ARRI-Mount.

If you are looking for a prime other than the Schneider Macro-Cinegon 1:1.8 / 10mm, you are "restricted" to these lens mounts!

It is the leading prime for Super 8 and is only competing with the two Century SuperWide 1:1.8 / 3.5mm and Century SuperWide 1:1.8 / 2.5mm ; plus of course the Single 8 format's Fujinon EBC 1:1.8 / 5.5mm offered for the Fujica ZC1000 which are ALL - however - C-Mount!

kevin jackman · February 4, 2008

exactly, so get the arriflex convertor and get zeiss glass. you will be glad you did.

Michael Lehnert · February 4, 2008

Or, if you don't like the look that Zeiss lenses produce thanks to Schott's T* multi-coating (and before), get a M-Mount to PL-Mount adapter made by Les Bosher and get yourself a Cooke SK4 prime ( :wub: ), supported (in case the M-Mount isn't too happy about the weight... the Beaulieu's C-Mount isn't) by Level 8mm's most excellent rod support.

kevin jackman · February 4, 2008

Or, if you don't like the look that Zeiss lenses produce thanks to Schott's T* multi-coating (and before), get a M-Mount to PL-Mount adapter made by Les Bosher and get yourself a Cooke SK4 prime ( :wub: ), supported (in case the M-Mount isn't too happy about the weight... the Beaulieu's C-Mount isn't) by Level 8mm's most excellent rod support.

why dont you like the zeiss glass?

Michael Lehnert · February 5, 2008

Oh, rest assured, Kevin, that I have nothing against Zeiss. These are excellent lenses, although recently with all the ARRI-Zeiss marketing tie-ins a little bit too present in the industry/market.

It's just that every manufacturer has a specific look associated with its glass, whether its Zeiss, Pana Primo, Cooke, Schneider or Angénieux. And with regard to personal preferences and/or the visual/optical look required for a specific film project, Zeiss might not be the default option to choose.

In light of that ? harking back to a conversation in this thread on the 16mm forum I had with Tim ? I raised the issue why Zeiss seems to be always the first thing people want to go for (when they rent their Arriflexs ;) ...) as...

I cannot fully comprehend why Cooke is always second-placed in respect to Zeiss. The color reproduction that Zeiss primes and vario sonnars offer has something too clean, too clinical, emphasising the "blue aspects" of light which irradiates the mood when not specifically wanted. German 1970s films are drowning in that mood, particularly Schlöndorff's films. But then again, he mostly filmed men urinating in pissoirs, so maybe that fits after all.

Anyway, I think Cooke transcends more what is filmed into the artistic realm in which cinematography is located in, after all. It is beautifully inspired by the oddly warm light here in the UK, filled with that degree of moisture that defines the atmospheric humidity here even in hot summers and which gives the light that specific glow in the air as the rays and particles get constantly broken.

...upon which Tim replied with this post here, stating that...

DISCLAIMER: BEFORE ANYONE GETS ALL WORKED UP, WHAT'S WRITTEN BELOW IS SIMPLY MY OPINION, FROM MY EXPERIENCE, OF WHAT I LIKE. IT IS NOT SOME STATEMENT OF "WHICH IS BETTER, COOKE OR ZEISS?"

Michael,

I couldn't agree with you more about the difference between the older Zeiss (Mk1 and older) and older Cooke (Kinetals and Speed Panchros) lenses. The Zeiss lenses just have no warmth in my opinion. And much of that has to do with what I like the look of. I come to all this from thirty plus years as a still photographer, where ninety percent of my work was photographing people in either a fashion context or photo documentary work. So for me, personally, it is all about faces. And the Cooke lenses add just this warmth and "human-ness" to faces. They are not as cold and clinical as I find the Zeiss glass.

So I just love the look of the Cooke glass. Below is a frame grab from one of the test clips on the web site. It was shot with a Cooke Kinetal 25mm. And I think it's beautiful.

-Tim

Tony Bullock · February 5, 2008

Are these converters still available new or is it an ebay job?

It sounds like the way forward as there are no cinegon 10mm out there at the mo.

Thanks again for all the info.

February 6, 2008

For the price of the more expensive of the two Macro-Cinegon lenses still available at the Super 8 Camera Shop, you might be able to RENT the Cooke or Zeiss lenses named for a day or two, but that doesn't include the cost of the PL to M adapter. If you think the Macro-Cinegon is expensive, think again. The Cooke SK4 lenses are in the neighborhood of $13.0K each. Unless you're in the filmmaking business and can pass along the cost of such lenses, you'll have to be an independently wealthy hobbyist to afford them, and even then it wouldn't make much sense to hang them on a Leicina Special.

If you have a bit of patience, you'll find a Macro-Cinegon at eBay.com. They don't appear every day, but they do appear with some regularity, especially if you search eBay sites worldwide.

Michael Lehnert · February 6, 2008

Very sound advice, Glenn!

Tony, you might want to check out Super 8 Today ISSUE #8 (JAN/FEB 2007) with the article by Daniel Henríquez-Ilic's he Halogenuros Project (google it) about his experiences shooting with S8 using Zeiss primes on Vision2 and going to a 2K DI post-chain for theatrical projection in 35mm.

I havn't been able to catch a screening of his 9min film yet on this little planet of ours, but I think this is surely very insightful. An HD telecine of Vision2 already blew me away, made with S8-proprietary lenses such as the Schneider 11x6mm (that you have, too), so ameliorating glass is worthy at least a test.

Are these converters still available new or is it an ebay job?

After the split-up of Leitz into three independent companies, which saw Leitz's motion-picture efforts left out in the cold and abandonned, it is no longer possible to get them new. So it's either an eBay job (check out the eBay shop wish-4-leica) or either Super8arena.com or the Super8Camera-shop.com. Alternatively, Les Bosher (hyperlinked in an earlier post here) might be able to make one for M-Mount from scratch. He is regularly doing C-Mount jobs.

Best of luck!

kevin jackman · February 6, 2008

Very sound advice, Glenn!

Tony, you might want to check out Super 8 Today ISSUE #8 (JAN/FEB 2007) with the article by Daniel Henríquez-Ilic's he Halogenuros Project (google it) about his experiences shooting with S8 using Zeiss primes on Vision2 and going to a 2K DI post-chain for theatrical projection in 35mm.

I havn't been able to catch a screening of his 9min film yet on this little planet of ours, but I think this is surely very insightful. An HD telecine of Vision2 already blew me away, made with S8-proprietary lenses such as the Schneider 11x6mm (that you have, too), so ameliorating glass is worthy at least a test.

After the split-up of Leitz into three independent companies, which saw Leitz's motion-picture efforts left out in the cold and abandonned, it is no longer possible to get them new. So it's either an eBay job (check out the eBay shop wish-4-leica) or either Super8arena.com or the Super8Camera-shop.com. Alternatively, Les Bosher (hyperlinked in an earlier post here) might be able to make one for M-Mount from scratch. He is regularly doing C-Mount jobs.

Best of luck!

i think i know of somebody who has an adator but its probably going to be the cost of the 10mm lens on that site. once again it does offer you really good lens options. if you want to rent or buy really good stuff than see if you can get a leicina to arri bayonet converter and things will really open up.