Single perf 35mm

[Paul Bruening]

Only problem... where to get a set of anamorphic lenses big enough to cover this frame:

[Michael Nash]

I'm a little confused, Michael. A 2880 wide video image is better than a 31mm wide film image?

 

Fine. Okay, maybe combine it with this and you're onto something. ;)

[Paul Bruening]

The Sony Atsugi guys some years ago had a telecine that scanned the whole width of the film, so you could see the holes to check registration. It also used capacitance to sense the holes and registered off of that. The dielectric properties of different pieces of film were a problem, and I don't think they ever marketed the machine. They may have used it in their HD facility on their lot. I saw a demo of it at a show once. Replace the capacitance with image recognition, and you have a way to deal with novel kinds of registration marks.

 

Hmmm, It never occurred to me to use capacitance. That IS an interesting approach, John. I was thinking more along the lines of UV or IR lasers through the film's punch holes (any frequency outside of the film's sensitivity) in the camera and image recognition, like you say, in the scanner. As well, an edge to edge exposure and scan would be handy. If you could get Kodak to turn off their edge code exposing device, you could expose all the way across the film surface (35mm wide image) if only the aperture plate rails could be replaced by something. I recall some cameras pressed and released the pressure plate against the back of the film for intermittent transport. Or, was it the aperture plate on the front side? Was it a B&H movement? I wonder if a small plate of optical glass could do that on the emulsion side of the film. A puffer device from a linear stepper could blast dust and hairs off the glass on each cycle. Digital dust-busting could get the rest.

 

This idea is getting to the outer parameters of my comfy chair engineering abilities.

 

Something to grind my brain over, though.

[John Sprung]

Was it a B&H movement?

Perhaps you're thinking of the classic Bell & Howell 2709 from the silent movie days. Of course it used conventional perforated 35mm, but it advanced the film in a unique way. The registration pins were absolutely solidly fixed, never moved at all. The film was pulled back off the pins, advanced by the pulldown, then pushed forward onto the pins and into the focal plane. It's still about the steadiest possible way to do mechanical registration.

 

Come to think of it, how about fixed registration pins and the kind of rolling loop advance they use in the Imax projectors.... ?

 

The capacitance thing didn't work too well on developed film, but you may find a smaller variation in dielectric properties with raw stock.

 

As for anamorphic lenses, there were some long ago that covered the 65/70 system. IIRC, they were less than a 2:1 squeeze, they were intended to get something like 2.75:1 AR out of the 2.21:1 native frame. I think Dalsa also have anamorphics that cover their chip, which is 34mm wide.

 

This is fun, though -- a cavalcade of obscure technologies. ;-)

 

 

 

 

-- J.S.

[Leo Anthony Vale]

As for anamorphic lenses, there were some long ago that covered the 65/70 system. IIRC, they were less than a 2:1 squeeze, they were intended to get something like 2.75:1 AR out of the 2.21:1 native frame. I think Dalsa also have anamorphics that cover their chip, which is 34mm wide.

 

There was CinemaScope 55, which had a frame size about twice the dimensions of 2.55:1 CinemaScope

on 8-perf 55mm negative.

 

Probably weren't many made, Fox dropped it after two movies for Todd-AO.

Someone told me they were sold off relatively cheap because they were just collecting dust.

 

Then there's always anamorphic attachments. More hassle than a bloc unit though.

[Paul Bruening]

When I get to wasting time thinking of goofing with current formats I go to the wikipedia page that, I guess, we've all been to countless times. It is stunning how many one-hit-wonders there have been in film formats.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_film_formats

 

My wife and I visited the film technology museum in L.A. a couple of years ago. I don't remember the name of it. It was right down the street from Grauman's Chinese. They didn't have a lot of examples there. Certainly nothing close to the Wikipedia list. I guess, after a while, they'd all run together as a pile of gears and boxes if I could see them all in one museum trip. Still, It would be nice to see some of the really old or obscure designs in person.

[John Sprung]

My wife and I visited the film technology museum in L.A. a couple of years ago. I don't remember the name of it. It was right down the street from Grauman's Chinese.

Was it uphill on a side street? That would be the ASC.

 

 

 

 

-- J.S.