Tom Lowe Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 A bit disappointing that they are just going with 4K as a digital IMAX projection standard (overlapping 2K DLP images). Plus I believe that the 2K DLP DMD chips are 2048 x 1080, which is 1.89 : 1, so any 4x3 IMAX movies won't even use 2048 across. They use something around 1437 pixels across, so would be 2.8K once doubled by this digital IMAX projector. With the possibility that regular movies may start using a 4K post and 4K projection standard, IMAX should be considering 6K to 8K for a standard just to be significantly better. I would have thought they would be experimenting with dual 4K Sony projectors to create an IMAX image, not dual 2K DLP projectors. Wow, what is IMAX thinking?? This is really pathetic. Didn't some Japanese company just show off an 8K projector? Someone needs to have a chat with the IMAX folks and get them up to speed on the latest technology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member George Ebersole Posted July 7, 2008 Premium Member Share Posted July 7, 2008 Does anybody know where one could find some good detailed information about the 765? Such as how many have been made, what they are worth, movies that have been shot with them and so on? If you've had personal experience with this camera, I'd like to hear about that too. With the all the hype surrounding the IMAX footage shot in "Dark Knight," it would really great to see a revolution of sorts with more and more filmmakers shooting 70mm. It seems the excuse for not shooting feature length 70mm anymore is that nobody hs the projectors. That is not neccesarily true. They're still out there. A decade ago, Kenneth Branagh shot Hamlet and Ron Howard shot "Far and Away." I elect that "Blood Meridian" be the next 70mm epic. It can be done I'm not sure if this point has been addressed or not (my apologies if it has), but IMAX cameras shoot like Vista Vission cameras. They scroll the film sideways behind the shutter. If you're hoping to shoot an IMAX release with an Arri, then you may want to rethink this. Your only choice really is to shoot with an IMAX camera if you want an IMAX image. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Fritzshall Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 A bit disappointing that they are just going with 4K as a digital IMAX projection standard (overlapping 2K DLP images). Plus I believe that the 2K DLP DMD chips are 2048 x 1080, which is 1.89 : 1, so any 4x3 IMAX movies won't even use 2048 across. They use something around 1437 pixels across, so would be 2.8K once doubled by this digital IMAX projector. With the possibility that regular movies may start using a 4K post and 4K projection standard, IMAX should be considering 6K to 8K for a standard just to be significantly better. I would have thought they would be experimenting with dual 4K Sony projectors to create an IMAX image, not dual 2K DLP projectors. So they are choosing to shift their claim to fame from "we have an amazing if unwieldy format" to "we have a screen that's just really big"? What's to stop any other theater company from using the same 2k projectors and just constructing really big screens and claiming that they are just as good as IMAX? Not only is this sad on its own terms, but now we're going to have to put up with all sorts of uneducated people claiming that a 4k digital camera has just as much resolution as IMAX. Ugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member David Mullen ASC Posted July 7, 2008 Premium Member Share Posted July 7, 2008 I'm not sure if this point has been addressed or not (my apologies if it has), but IMAX cameras shoot like Vista Vission cameras. They scroll the film sideways behind the shutter. If you're hoping to shoot an IMAX release with an Arri, then you may want to rethink this. Your only choice really is to shoot with an IMAX camera if you want an IMAX image. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong. Well, plenty of other formats have been blown-up or converted to 15-perf 65mm for IMAX release. The better the format, the better the blow-up to IMAX. So 5-perf 65mm would be better than 4-perf 35mm, for example, but actually shooting in 15-perf 65mm is even better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Lowe Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 So they are choosing to shift their claim to fame from "we have an amazing if unwieldy format" to "we have a screen that's just really big"? What's to stop any other theater company from using the same 2k projectors and just constructing really big screens and claiming that they are just as good as IMAX? Not only is this sad on its own terms, but now we're going to have to put up with all sorts of uneducated people claiming that a 4k digital camera has just as much resolution as IMAX. Ugh. Hopefully these "4K" showings at IMAX will be limited to blowups of 35mm films and stuff like Shrek 4. I pray they are not talking about doing away with their IMAX film projects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K Borowski Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 Hopefully these "4K" showings at IMAX will be limited to blowups of 35mm films and stuff like Shrek 4. I pray they are not talking about doing away with their IMAX film projects. Same here, that'd be like a punch in the throat. . . To be honest, it's ridiculous spending $45 grand to blow up say an HD movie or even 35mm, that doesn't really benefit from all of that increased real-estate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member George Ebersole Posted July 8, 2008 Premium Member Share Posted July 8, 2008 Well, plenty of other formats have been blown-up or converted to 15-perf 65mm for IMAX release. The better the format, the better the blow-up to IMAX. So 5-perf 65mm would be better than 4-perf 35mm, for example, but actually shooting in 15-perf 65mm is even better. That's interesting. I really had no idea. Can you list a couple of titles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Lowe Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 That's interesting. I really had no idea. Can you list a couple of titles? Superman Returns, Batman Begins, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member David Mullen ASC Posted July 8, 2008 Premium Member Share Posted July 8, 2008 Superman Returns, Batman Begins, etc. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_IMAX_DMR_films 2002 Beauty and the Beast Apollo 13 Treasure Planet Star Wars II: Attack of the Clones 2003 The Lion King The Matrix Reloaded The Matrix Revolutions 2004 Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban Spider-Man 2 The Polar Express (in 3-D) 2005 Robots Batman Begins Charlie and the Chocolate Factory Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire 2006 V for Vendetta Poseidon Superman Returns (partially in 3-D) The Ant Bully (in 3-D) Open Season (in 3-D) Happy Feet (almost in 3-D, but WB backed out at the last minute) Night at the Museum 2007 300 Spider-Man 3 Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix (partially in 3-D) Transformers Beowulf (in 3-D) I Am Legend 2008 U2 3D The Spiderwick Chronicles Shine a Light Speed Racer Kung Fu Panda Upcoming DMR films The Dark Knight -- will feature four sequences filmed with IMAX® cameras. Madagascar: Escape 2 Africa Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince (partially in 3-D) Monsters vs. Aliens (in 3-D) Shrek Goes Fourth (in 3-D) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Lowe Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 Just out of curiosity, what resolution are films like Shrek and the whole Pixar line done at? 2K? 4K? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member George Ebersole Posted July 8, 2008 Premium Member Share Posted July 8, 2008 I saw Superman Returns. I didn't like it much as a film, but I thought it was very well shot. Very crisp and good composition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Michael Lehnert Posted July 8, 2008 Premium Member Share Posted July 8, 2008 To return to Joe's original question: Last time I was in Munich, they had still 8 manufactured, rental-only (although they did not say that a purchase was out of question à la PV :) ), in completely cased units sitting next-by-next on the shelf. I am not entirely sure about the current numbers around and running, as I remember vaguley that one was a write-off (burnt-out) and one or at one time even two were cannibalised for spares. Manufacturing a new replacement was deemed uneconomical. I am currently traveling and out of my office, so I can't doublecheck with my paperwork but only what I have with me on my PowerBook; but as soon as I find time, I will try to find out once I am back next week, if you want. The Arriflex 765 is an absolutely gourgeous camera!!... !!!... ! Although it comes out of the Arriflex 535 era (which wasn't Arris best manufacturing quality period :( ), it isn't troubled in respect to the used materials and mechanical shortcomings the 35 model suffered from. It is remarkably silent for such a beast with realistic 25-30 dBa @ 24 fps (although I must admit I never encountered another 65mm camera - just the usual Mitchell 35 monsters) The dual 3-claw pulldown movement with double register pins is huge when you are used to working with 16 or 8 gear :D . Two mag types, Maxi PL, and as regards lenses, well, Max surely knows more than I do about that. The cases were transported by 3 Arri hulks, no idea how much it weighs ready-to-shot on an Arrihead in real terms. Michael Ballhaus and students from Potsdam and HFF currently use of for "three minute wonder"-type cine etudes and master classes - so that the gear gets used after being more idle than on set. I hear that the students are absolutely in awe about shooting 65. I have a PDF manual somewhere but can't find it right now in my documents folder ( - not sure why - had to springclean before moving to Apple's thin SSD drive). The only thing I can attach here is an old 1990s brochure as PDF which I hold on my iDisk. I am sure someone at Arri will supply you with free documentation upon request, if not from HQ in Munich, try London! Sorry for not being able to offer more for now, -Michael Arriflex_765.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Taylor Posted July 8, 2008 Author Share Posted July 8, 2008 Hello Michael Thanks for the info. The number of cameras Arri had was one of the main things I was curious about. I've found a little info. on the web, but surprisingly, not much. If anybody might have any documents they'd share, please post them or PM them to me if you don't mind. Thanks, again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Michael Lehnert Posted July 8, 2008 Premium Member Share Posted July 8, 2008 I can see your issue, Joe, and you are right, there is very little info around on the Arriflex 765. Chiefly because it is rarely used. I know of only 3 projects, all Germany-based, that used them for independent production - one of which was for a tetralogy (or quadrilogy for American English) that shot the parts on all available film formats, from S8 up to 65mm. It's only recently, though, with the increase in interest shooting 65mm that Türkenstrasse has started to make better use of it through promotion instead of just having it gather dust. After all, their construction was mostly driven by a status/vanity project in the 1990s in the first place when Arri really gathered momentum and became the leading motion picture systems provider even for the US (it took a while for many to digest seeing Arriflex cameras being offered for rental through Panavision, i.e. the 16 SR-series). They wanted to offer a complete camera solution for every format. (Hmm... so where's the Arriflex 108 for Super 8 then?) BTW, I found the manual again (accidentally re-named it with cryptic letters :rolleyes: ) but it's quite big for a forum-based attachment (9 MB). I had a quick look at Arri's website and they have everything in basic material for download there: as I am sure you already know :) . But just to make sure, I paste a direct hyperlink (should remain static over time) for the download of the Arriflex 765 manual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Rose Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 So how about we all chip in and buy one? We can divy up the days! I get first dibs! BR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member John Sprung Posted July 8, 2008 Premium Member Share Posted July 8, 2008 Well, plenty of other formats have been blown-up or converted to 15-perf 65mm for IMAX release. The better the format, the better the blow-up to IMAX. So 5-perf 65mm would be better than 4-perf 35mm, for example, but actually shooting in 15-perf 65mm is even better. There's also 8 perf vertical pull 65mm, which would be a better fit for the aspect ratio of 15 perf horizontal. -- J.S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Rose Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 Wow, that's new to me! I wasn't aware of 65mm in such a configuration. Is it used for special effects or process shots, or is it a compact form used by imax (like three strip tech's used of 16mm bipack)? BR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member John Sprung Posted July 8, 2008 Premium Member Share Posted July 8, 2008 I just saw the 65/8perf projector running at a trade show once. Never saw the camera. -- J.S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Downes Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 I just saw the 65/8perf projector running at a trade show once. Never saw the camera. -- J.S. I have seen one of the cameras for sale once, passed on it tho. It was used in Japan for their Astrovision system so the guy told me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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