Par Strength for Bounced Moonlight

timHealy · August 19, 2008

Tim, I guess if you can get all you need rather quickly that is a good way to have a 'roaming' fill... tho gelled Tungsten can go all night... I could see certain applications for the Battery Belt-Joker but I'd recommend large bounced Sources that will burn all night for a 'Street scene'.

Frankly I don't care what someone uses for an eye light or fill. 100 different DP's will do it 100 different ways to get the same effect. Working on Ghost Town, Fred Murphy liked the Chimera Lantern with a PH bulb, But I have also worked for John Bailey who preferred an Arri Pocket Par with a Chimera and the Dichroic filter. Who was right and who was wrong. Neither, it was the DP's choice for the shoot that's all.

Your response seemed to suggest you didn't know what Karish was talking about. Or did all those question marks have a different meaning?

Best

Tim

David Rakoczy · August 19, 2008

Your response seemed to suggest you didn't know what Karish was talking about. Or did all those question marks have a different meaning?

Best

Tim

Tim, Mr. Wu was talking about a Night Street Scene.. I would hardly plan on creating Moonlight for a 'Street Scene' with a China Lantern or Joker Chimera... I also have never seen an HMI run for any decent length of time on a Battery Belt.. that is why I suggested Lighting the scene with real Bounces and real Lights.

You are free to disagree, certainly.. but I will take two 12x Bounces with 9Lights over a small hand held Source any day esp. for all the reason mentioned above... .. but hey, that's just me. Maybe (you) were talking about an 'eyelight' or fill for the main character.. I was talking about Lighting the actual Scene.

Have a great day Tim... you too Karsih..

timHealy · August 19, 2008

Tim, Mr. Wu was talking about a Night Street Scene.. I would hardly plan on creating Moonlight for a 'Street Scene' with a China Lantern or Joker Chimera... I also have never seen an HMI run for any decent length of time on a Battery Belt.. that is why I suggested Lighting the scene with real Bounces and real Lights.

You are free to disagree, certainly.. but I will take two 12x Bounces with 9Lights over a small hand held Source any day esp. for all the reason mentioned above... .. but hey, that's just me. Maybe (you) were talking about an 'eyelight' or fill for the main character.. I was talking about Lighting the actual Scene.

Have a great day Tim... you too Karsih..

Hey David,

Well it just appears you missed one of Tim Wu's questions, and he had many. His original post was about moonlight and he got sidetracked about fill light and his post about the handheld fill/eyelight he saw in the Ghost Town behind the scenes clip. I think that was the part Karish was responding to.

Best

Tim

David Rakoczy · August 19, 2008

Hey David,

Well it just appears you missed one of Tim Wu's questions, and he had many. His original post was about moonlight and he got sidetracked about fill light and his post about the handheld fill/eyelight he saw in the Ghost Town behind the scenes clip. I think that was the part Karish was responding to.

Best

Tim

No problem Tim,

I thought Tim's 2nd question was 'questionable'.. the Moonlight Sources I was describing (were) Fill(ish). He'd probably get a 2 - 2.8 with the set up I suggested in which case no actual 'Fill' is needed... on the Key side so to speak... unless you wanted to walk in a Bounce Board for a CU. For me, the actual Key(s) would be the Tungsten/ Street Light Units, Kickers and Edgers motivated from Windows...

David Rakoczy · August 19, 2008

Hey David,

Well it just appears you missed one of Tim Wu's questions, and he had many. His original post was about moonlight and he got sidetracked about fill light and his post about the handheld fill/eyelight he saw in the Ghost Town behind the scenes clip. I think that was the part Karish was responding to.

Best

Tim

No problem Tim,

I thought Tim Wu's 2nd question was 'questionable'.. the Moonlight Sources I was describing (were) Fill(ish).... on the Key side so to speak.. He'd probably get a 2 - 2.8 with the set up I suggested in which case no actual 'Fill' is needed. Unless you wanted to walk in a Bounce Board for a CU. For me, the actual Key(s) would be the Tungsten/ Street Light Units, Kickers and Edgers motivated from Windows...

I did not mean to scare off Karish... if that is your concern. Karish... come back!

Edited August 19, 2008 by David Rakoczy

David Rakoczy · August 19, 2008

Sometimes these things can be difficult to describe with just text.

When you set Moonlight Fill.. that is exactly what it is. Moon Light 'Fill'. So, when Mr. Wu asked about Fill again.. it seemed redundant... to me.

Anyway, all this talk of Street Scene Night Lighting... makes me want to get out there and DO some... tonight.. better start laying cable now while it's still light!

Edited August 19, 2008 by David Rakoczy

Tim Wu · August 19, 2008

Haha, thanks for everyone's contributions!

And sorry for the confusion on everyone's end. (You all can just call me Wu, btw. The two Tim's is confusing, haha. All my friends just call me Wu anyway~)

I had asked about the second fill because I haven't had any experience lighting night exteriors, and in my research, I came across that clip from Ghost Town, and thought that a smaller fill opposite the source of the moonlight would be needed to light features. I was just wondering how much the Maxibrute set-up would wrap around the face~

Of course, how much of the rest of face lies in relative darkness I'm sure is a stylistic choice. And for the mood, I'm sure the director would prefer the darkness, as this is a slasher short.

SO, my question (so there's no confusion, haha):

- I've never used this MaxiBrute set-up before, but it seems that's the direction I'm leaning currently. Is it possible for this to be the only source of moonlight? Or is a second smaller fill opposite the set-up recommended for an even lighter fill, or to be eye light, such as Tim Healy had noted~

- Stocks wise, I'm leaning towards 7218 or 7219 (if we can afford it). I've read a lot about underexposing and pushing, etc. etc. But I've never used these techniques before, and am wary. Haha. Could someone give me the lowdown on this? Or should I move this to the film stocks forum?

Thanks again everyone!

timHealy · August 20, 2008

karish come back!!!!

is that like Shane! Come back Shane!

Edited August 20, 2008 by timHealy

Kiarash Sadigh · August 21, 2008

Kiarash.. a Joker for Moonlight on a Street Scene??? DC????????? Huh?

Chris, I like your response... Tim had better hunker down with a 'real' Gaffer.. who know some 'real' Grips...

I'm referring to the video you've attached, arri 125w/200w dc pocket par for eye light or fill...

Matt Irwin · August 24, 2008

Wu,

I just finished shooting a low budget short, all night exteriors, with the Varicam (ASA 500-ish). We couldn't afford ballons, condors, etc for base light so here was our low budget solution:

Rent several white sun umbrellas with the lighting package (they come with junior pins) and mount them to hi-hi rollers. Grid clamp one firestarter PAR to the bottom stick of the hi-hi and run it through a 2k variac for precise control.

The result is a highly mobile "moon bounce" that can be placed anywhere you can put a stand with very little screwing around. Top stick on a hi-hi put the umbrella about 25-30' in the air. We also used this rig on single story rooftops with combo stands.

At 100% dim (85 on the variac), I was getting about 12 fc in a 15' radius around the stand, falling off to about 3 fc at 30'. It's very affective as a low level top/back base light as long as you're not shooting a gigantic wide shot of a field.

If you gel the pars, keep lots of heat shield handy. And mason/parachute line to tie off for wind.

-MI

Tim Wu · August 24, 2008

Ooh, very nice. But why umbrellas as opposed to grifflons or bounce boards?

And sorry if this a novice question, but what K par is a "firestarter" par?

Thanks!

Matt Irwin · August 24, 2008

Ooh, very nice. But why umbrellas as opposed to grifflons or bounce boards?

And sorry if this a novice question, but what K par is a "firestarter" par?

Thanks!

A Firestarter is a 1200w tungsten VNSP PAR 64 lamp that fits into a rock-and-roll par can. They are extremely powerful for their size and have a very tight beam--- perfect in a cluster with other spreads for "snipered" backlight at night, throwing shafts of light, bouncing, etc, etc, etc.

The short answer to "why" is simplicity and portability. Less rigging and time to set up, which was an issue for us with limited crew, time, and budget. The cone shape of the umbrella allows for some control over the spread and intensity by moving the hotspot hi/low, left/right. Honestly, I'd probably use this again with a bigger crew and budget. I liked the results and it was fast, so why not? Perhaps having a larger umbrella made out of griff or ultrabounce would be worth it if I end up using this more....